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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Problem with my head (with pictures)

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/25/2004 : 08:47:31

Hi All, the head in Adventurous has never worked right since I got her a year and a half ago. The hand pump is very difficult to move up and down, and it doesn't suck water up from the lake. So yesterday I started messing with it, took the pump mechanism apart in an effort to determine the problem. I found a rubber piece (gasket?) that had a piece torn off. I have two photos of the piece, one with a pair of sizzors for scale, and one a little bit closer. After looking at the pics, can anyone confirm that this is the problem? The type of head I have is a Groco MF model. I open the seacock when trying to flush, and the waste goes into a holding tank.

Thanks all, any help is tremendously appreciated!

Ben
Beneteau 361
Viking Kitty
Columbus, Ohio

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oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2004 : 09:52:25

From the looks of those flapper valves it appears that your head needs to be totally rebuilt since you can assume that all the valves are in nearly the same condition. I rebuilt my Wilcox Head Mate once and it was a dirty job. The parts kit cost a substantial fraction of what it would have cost to replace the entire unit. Next time I won't bother to rebuild. Good luck.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2004 : 09:57:54

Here's the [url="http://www.groco.net/cat_svcman.html"]Groco Installation/Operating Instructions, Parts Descriptions and Drawings[/url] web page.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2004 : 10:35:28

I do not have a marine head but all of the posts I have read going back a year and a half say the same thing. Buy a new head, if the Catalina head were somehow unique it might be worth rebuilding but it seems there are many options to replace it at very reasonable costs.

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2004 : 13:37:25

From the pictures I can see why its not working. The Joker valve has come appart. The smaller part should be attached in the area of the larger part where the hole is. This broken valve is causing the intake or sucktion stroke to have no sucktion. Check the price of a rebuild kit against the price of a new head. Last time I did a rebuild the kit was $69 and the new head was $120.

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oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2004 : 13:59:37

Not that it makes much of a difference, but it's not the joker valve that's shown in these pictures. The joker valve is the large one that gets plugged open when something that hasn't been eaten is tossed down the head.

From the condition of the flapper valves shown here, I'd guess that this head has received plenty of "use", has seen its fair share of "matter" and would like to be retired.

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2004 : 16:23:42

I second the get a new head attitude. I had a simmilar problem with my head when I first bought my boat. I was ready to tear it down and do the rebuild when I found a couple of cracked parts. I ran back to WM and gave them $100 or so for a whole new head. If this one lasts a few yrs and breaks I will likely do the same thing. So far it is working like a champ.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2004 : 17:06:08

It just seems a shame to buy a whole new head. I priced a rebuild kit from WM, which was $50.00, I think, as opposed to a new one for $150.00. That's $100.00 I could spend elsewhere on the boat. Seems to me a rebuild would be easy. Am I wrong?

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2004 : 18:25:41

"Seems to me a rebuild would be easy. Am I wrong?"
Ben - nothing ever seems to be easy on a boat task...Murphy is a permanent resident!

Derek

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2004 : 20:00:30

I am all for saving boat money. In my case I was dealing with a 16yo head and found several problems that the kit would not fix. It has been mentioned somewhere online that the cheaper heads are desighned with a 10 yr life or so. I was lucky and WM had the jasco head on sale and in stock. It took 30 minutes and no turd chasing. Pretty good deal in my book.

Looking at how crappy those parts look in the photo, I can only assume the way to guarantee a good, functional, leak free head is to buy a new one. The jabsco compact was an exact replacement for my rule-jabsco head. Good luck.

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2004 : 23:48:58

I have rebuilt a groco while cruising. the nice thing is that it is a lot cheaper to have the rebuild kit shipped next day to some small Canadian town than it is to have the whole head shipped. especially if you want to keep cruising and not be stuck in a marina for days. When I bought Nin Bimash II there was a porta pottie and they are not allowed in the NC. So I replaced it with a type 3 marine sanitation system. the thing I neglected was to have a rebuild kit in my spare parts bag. Im not afraid to tear down the head and clean the valves, do yourself a favor, and take the whole business ashore. Stuff rags or what ever in the main discharge tube and don't forget to shut off the seawater intake. That way you won't stink up the boat. unless that has already happened....due....to.....uh...the existing problems with the can. A guy here in Mount Vernon makes a composting toilet for sailboats. maybe that's where we should be heading..Heading I just got it..

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Sid
Navigator

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129 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2004 : 17:44:40

My original C25 head needs a rebuild/replacement. I believe it is the obsolete Par model on the CD site. The rebuild kit is $47. I know that for $60-$75 more I could get a new head. I already took the head apart to find the state of the seals/gaskets etc so the rebuild wouldn't be hard and the rest appers to be good (no cracks in plastic). How hard is it to remove the head for replacement? What tips or tricks are there? I don't see a way on my boat to access the bolts holding the head to the floor.

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Sid
Navigator

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129 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2004 : 18:10:28

Come on, someone's fought those bolts before, help a sailor out

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mmac
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2004 : 00:30:07

Sid,
There's nothing to access, just unscrew them. I replied to your thread explaining how I did mine. Follow John's advice about the rags.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.