Association Forum - Wrong Mainsail?

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Wrong Mainsail?

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

ct95949
Captain

Member Avatar

Aruba
300 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/25/2004 : 21:22:30

Hoisted my brand new mainsail from Catalina Direct today (Ullman Ventura offshore, full battens). The sail looks great except for the part that is hitting the backstay

.The top batten is about six inches behind the backstay and the upper middle batten is about 3 inches behind. Yes, the battens are all the way into the pockets, there is about 10 feet of the sails leach behind the backstay. It will just clear if I lower the sail about a foot. Am I missing somththing? Shouldn't I be hoisting the main all the way up? Also, this new sail has no foot rope, only a slug at the clew and an earring at the tack. Is this a 'loose footed' main? What is the reason or advantage over a foot rope? The leach is curved at the top (roach?) of the new sail, while my old sail has almost a straight leach. The new sail also has grommet about a foot up the luff from the tack earring. Is this for rigging a downhaul line and what would be a typical routing? I know some of you guys have purchased this sail and are very happy with it. It looks like a quality product except for my little problem. Any input would be greatly appriciated. Thanks, Craig

'90 SR/WK #6017. PO of '79 SR/SK.

Edited by - ct95949 on 04/25/2004 21:28:12

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2004 : 08:41:23

Yes you should be going all the way up with the sail…Lets see if I can attach your questions one by one..

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Am I missing somththing? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Maybe – .

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Shouldn't I be hoisting the main all the way up? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Do you have a downhaul line attached to your boom? If not its possible your boom is rising as you hoist the sail. Your hoist should be about all but a few inches from the top of the mast. Another possibility is that you got a tall rig main on a standard rig boat. Although if its only a foot difference you are talking about, I doubt it. I would first try rigging a downhaul on the boom, Tying a simple line to it and attaching that line to the cleat that should be in the kerf about 2 feet (a guess) up the mast. If your boom is rising on you, that may be the 12 inches you need. See the Cunningham notes below, which might help you get the last couple of inches. .

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Also, this new sail has no foot rope, only a slug at the clew and an earring at the tack. Is this a 'loose footed' main?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
YES.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> What is the reason or advantage over a foot rope?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> You will be able to better shape the main in almost all conditions, you’ll also get, although minimal, better efficiency out of the lower portion of the sail. .

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The leach is curved at the top (roach?) of the new sail, while my old sail has almost a straight leach.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Yes that is roach, your taking advantage of more sail area up top. A square foot of cloth up top is worth about 10 down by the boom.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The new sail also has grommet about a foot up the luff from the tack earring. Is this for rigging a downhaul line and what would be a typical routing?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The Cringle (grommet) you speak of is more than likely a Cunningham grommet. This allows you to tension your luff properly. (it will also enable you to bring the sail down about another inch. Hoist with the halyard, make sure the boom doesn’t rise in the track, then tension the Cunningham (block and tackle, a baby version of a boom vang…and I mean really small version) with a hook in the end that goes through that cringle 

. <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> It will just clear if I lower the sail about a foot<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
All of these items might just get you the foot differential you speak of. If a little bit of your sail still knocks the back stay, either have a sailmaker reinforce the area of the sail, or do it yourself and run a line of rigging tape over the area.

One more question from me – Is your rig tuned properly? If your mast is any bit forward or not raked aft at all, you might pick up a few millemeters that way as well.

DW

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2004 : 08:57:31

My new mainsail is like yours, with a "loose foot" and larger roach, and I, too, experienced the leech of the sail hanging up on the backstay which sometimes required flopping the boom back and forth while simultaneously jiggling the backstay fore and aft during a tack. This was not fun.

To alleviate this problem I lowered the full hoist of my mainsail a wee bit so it would better clear the backstay. The only issue I had was that I had a bimini which meant that I couldn't lower my boom. So what I did was I used the Cunningham (your grommet that is a foot up the luff) and have it set so when raising the main it will stop at the appropriate point.

The additional benefit of having the Cunningham set is that it takes the stress off of the gooseneck, which is the weakest link in the whole rig.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2004 : 17:41:47

To chime in, I had to adjust the height of my CD mainsail as described above. In addition, my 2nd to the top batten, with it's pocket protector, protruded about an inch beyond the roach and was still snagging on the back stay. By cutting about an inch off (and sanding) the batten, made it flush with edge of the roach and now clears the back stay beautifully.

Edited by - matsche on 04/26/2004 17:42:34

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2004 : 20:54:54

I wonder what's going on with their measurements at that loft?

I think you really shouldn't have to fool around with the lowering the boom,
trimming battens etc. IMHO a sail should fly cleanly at 'full hoist'.

Was ready to order a new Ullman main myself... now I'm pondering.
May go with North instead.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2004 : 21:50:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Duane Wolff
 One more question from me – Is your rig tuned properly? If your mast is any bit forward or not raked aft at all, you might pick up a few millemeters that way as well.

DW

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
ding ding ding

My bet is the mast is raked forward.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2004 : 21:51:09

I would call CD right away and explain the problem to them. I have the same sail on my tall rig, hoist it to the masthead, and have no problem clearing the backstay. 6 inches for the top batten and 3 for the middle extending past the backstay makes me wonder if the sail was cut wrong.Since your sail is new, I'd get them on this problem ASAP.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2004 : 22:07:39

Regarding Duane's suspicion about the tall rig sail, you'd know it--the luff is 3' longer, so the boom would be on the cabintop. I recall that others here have commented about the Ulman sails catching the backstay--I have to wonder if he's overdoing the roach (except for the hardcore racers). I, for one, would prefer tacking smoothly, without beating up the sail.

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

Members Avatar

Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2004 : 23:15:57

Thanks, everyone. As usual your advice is priceless. The information on mast rake, downhaul and cunningham is especially useful. I will try all the adjustments suggested but the reply by ClamBeach is exactly what is bugging me about this sail. I just hate the idea of removing the battens, coiling them back into the box, folding up the sail and shipping it back to Ullman. And I will call the C.D. tech line on my dime, wait on hold, and try to explain the problem on a cell phone. I tried today but they are not available on Mondays. (Yes, after this and some other problems I am beginning to sour on C.D.). Thanks again, Craig

Edited by - ct95949 on 04/26/2004 23:17:31

oldsalt
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2004 : 23:22:04

I'm curious as to this plays out. Quite a few respondents are very happy with their CD/Ullman full battened, loose footed sails. I wonder if mast tuning is responsible. The mast would have to be raked very far to cause this problem. Maybe the mast bend is excessive? A picture would probably tell all, but I bet CD or Ullman can figure this out quickly.

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2004 : 00:21:13

Bruce - I agree you shouldn't have to mess with lowering the boom or trimming the battens, but with a crisp new sail, the boom has more tendency to rise on a hoist, especially if it is at the dock where there wouldn't be much wind. A boom down haul to keep it in place is needed... Nothing fancy, just a quarter inch line bowlined through the eyelet on the boom to the cleat provided by catalina 25+ years ago at the factory.

Craig -- Might want to check on the height of the current boom to make sure it wasn't raised by a DPO too. They might have wanted to clear a bimini or dodger...

Dave B - kind of why I said I doubt it, referring to tall rig sail - but thought I should mention it just in case. The trend these days seems to be larger roach sails. Mine actually catches the backstay by design in some wind conditions, though only by a few.

-- <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The mast would have to be raked very far to cause this problem. Maybe the mast bend is excessive? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">--Old salt

or the mast has no pre-bend at all and is raked forward.

Craig -
I think with a little playing around, you should be able to work everything out.

let me know how it goes

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2004 : 08:54:06

You can see from this picture from the C25 brochure that the mainsail slightly overlaps the backstay. With a newer main that has a larger roach, the overlap is even greater.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.