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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Moving up to spinnaker class

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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/09/2004 : 12:21:10

I'm thinking of moving up to the spinnaker racing class. Any ideas on how to do this inexpensively? I'd like to buy a used spinnaker and pole or to at least acquire a pole cheaply by making it myself. Any ideas?

Bruce Baker
Falls Church, VA
"Yee Ha" 3573
'83SR/SK

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2004 : 15:08:35

Make sure you have enough 'regular/dependable' crew... a spinnaker takes more bodies.
(1) foredeck, (2) sheet trimmers (1) halyards/mainsheet/traveller (1) boatdriver.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2004 : 19:23:53

It will cost you a thou on the cheap.
Spinnaker pole
Pole topping lift
topping lift blocks
topping lift cleat
pole down haul
down haul blocks
down haul cleats
deck fairleads
mast track and ring car
genoa track cars
Sheets
spinnaker halyard with hardware
spinnaker halyard cleat or clutch
deck organizers
spinnaker
more beer
more food
more people late

All for a sail that everyone agrees should not be flown dead down wind and therefore whose performance can be replicated with a cruising spinnaker for half the price and aggravation. Also, do you sail long enough legs for the entire event of hauling down the head sail and setting the chute (with the reverse event as you near the mark) to be worth it? It also puts you in another league of competition. The league where people have crews that have sailed together for years, practice weekly and spend major BUs on their boat just to keep up. I am not saying not to do it, but I would crew for someone else for a long while before I would do it to one of our boats.

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2004 : 20:59:57

I echo the previous post.I just bought a crusing spin. I just completed my first race and by all accounts had a pretty good day. We ran downwind for 40 miles on the Mug race in Jacksonvile. I finished ahead of all the 25's by at least an hour buy still took 6th in the cruising with spinnaker class. I would not trade my descicion to buy a spin for a second. The majority of the day was spent running dead downwind and the symetrical spin boats made ground on us. If you are going to compete you need a symetrical. When the wind started piping up my boat was starting to heel and the symetrical boats lifted and went faster.
2 more cents. Tom.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2004 : 08:11:31

Take a look at my paper in the tech tips section. Much of this can be done inexspensively at first and then switched out later as you pick up extra odds and ends. There will still be a good chunk of initial expense though. the main items you'll need - besides a spinaker and pole are - pole eye on mast, lines, two aft sheet blocks and a pole lift. The other items can be rigged with what you already have...for the most part.

dw

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Bruce Baker
Captain

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USA
402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2004 : 09:51:09

Thanks for the advice to not add the spinnaker, but as my former congressman has said "don't confuse me with the facts, my minds is made up".

I've got a line on a used Catalina 27 pole. Is is the same size as I need for a Catalina 25? I believe it's 11'6".

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2004 : 10:13:17

I don't think it was (mostly) advice not to add... just warnings on what's really involved in 'stepping up'... that term really means what it says in terms of crew proficiency and $$$.

If you've got the drive, by all means go there. I think what bothered some of us is that you are trying to do it cheaply... 'cheap' and 'successful' usually don't go together in spinnaker-class racing. To be competitive takes money... and it's hard to hold crew if you're bringing up the rear all the time.

As far as spinnaker pole size, there's a good thread elsewhere on max spinnaker pole length allowed.

Another thing to watch about stepping up... the more serious the racing, the more picky things get. Other boats will protest almost any perceived violation of either gear or racing. If the spinnaker pole is an inch too long for your rating, it will be a problem.
(at least as soon as you become competitive)

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2004 : 10:17:41

Bruce, for 20+ years I raced my C-25 non-spinnaker, and still do so. But, in the past 2 years I've been skippering a J-24 for a friend, and have learned to race with a spinnaker, and it’s a blast! I regret not learning how to fly a spinnaker sooner. Three crew can fly one, if they know what they’re doing, but four is better. If you’re going to keep your C-25 long enough to justify the expense, and if you can find enough crew, go ahead and rig for a spinnaker. It won’t take long to amortize $1,000 worth of fun.

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2004 : 10:32:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 Make sure you have enough 'regular/dependable' crew... a spinnaker takes more bodies.
(1) foredeck, (2) sheet trimmers (1) halyards/mainsheet/traveller (1) boatdriver.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We do it with 2 Clam... I would recommend no less than 3 for a boat our size.

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2004 : 12:34:47

Bruce - we had a very experienced racer on the lake in a C25 TR. He was the consistent winner in our Non-Spin Fleet so decided to move up to the spinnaker class...he never won another trophy! I truly believe, that, with our masthead rigs the chute does not give enough advantage to take on fractional rig boats designed for spinnaker use. Conversely, our masthead rig allows a huge genoa which is a dynamite sail poled-out off the wind.
Derek

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2004 : 14:54:09

"We do it with 2 Clam..."

Two people on the boat? Or two crew + a skipper ?
Either way, they're pretty busy folks!
Especially in over 15 kts of wind!

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2004 : 15:48:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 "We do it with 2 Clam..."

Two people on the boat? Or two crew + a skipper ?
Either way, they're pretty busy folks!
Especially in over 15 kts of wind!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Two Total -

And yes we are busy - we probably wouldn't put it up in anything more than 10kts unless we had more hands.

The foredeck guy (me) goes to set up for the hoist. We pre-set the pole off of the forestay and lock it down. Then I go back hoist the sail from the companionway, after the boat is turned downwind and the main is out Harvey trims the chute momentarily while I drop the jib to the deck. Then I fly the sheet and the guy, harv handles the main and the tiller. No way I could handle both in 15kts of wind. But I've seen it done by two guys in the gemini race....

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/10/2004 : 22:46:41

Bruce,
By all means, get one if you are sure you want it. I flew a chute for years...

That's me waaaay back there. This is a fun time while flying a chute; gybing in traffic at a mark.

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