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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

outboard sizes - min and/or max

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ksaubier
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/24/2004 : 15:33:06

Hello, I'm a first-time boat owner (1980 Catalina 25) and have been enjoying the forum... "thank you" to everyone that contributes to it.

My wife and I took our boat out on Saturday for the first time... a very exciting day for us.

Anyway, I'd like to hear some opinions about outboard sizes that other people are using. Our boat currently has a 2-stroke 6hp Johnson (I was told it was rebuilt to an 8 but I'm pretty skeptical of that). This motor starts and runs ok, but doesn't seem to have enough power to move our boat sufficiently (IMO). I really don't have much confidence in it. I'm not even sure it would move the boat against a strong headwind. If I'm going to try and replace this motor, what would be a "good" size? Would a 15hp 2-stroke be too much (I know I'd probably have to replace the mount for raising and lowering it since it's most likely rated to 9hp max)? Do most people think an 8 or 9hp is plenty?

-Ken

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3323 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2004 : 16:36:24

Ken - I've had an 8 hp Nissan on the boat for at least the last 10 years. Never had a problem with being underpowered. (I did replace the prop with a 6.5" pitch for better control around the docks).
Derek

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trent
1st Mate

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USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2004 : 16:47:09

First of all welcome aboard Ken. This is a great forum and I'm thankful for it as well. I run into subjects that I don't usually think about here and that is helpful.

I've had my 25 for about 6 years now and sailed on Galveston bay and Oolagah lake here in Oklahoma and always found my Johnson 7.5hp engine to be plenty even in a headwind. It has never let me down except for the fitting on the end of the fuel line breaking repeatedly.

Quick question. Are you getting the engine all the way down on the mount. I know that may sound silly but there is a big power difference between stirring air into the water and actually getting a good bite into the water. I've found the difference between the two notches on the mount to be great.

\trent

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2004 : 18:43:43

8 Hp is all around good average. 10 is good for coastal and inland waters 15 is overkill

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2004 : 19:37:30

I have a 9,9 four stroke Yamaha, which is overkill. I can power past hull speed if I want, and there are times on tidal or rough conditions when I WANT. It is really NOT HP, in my opinion, that really matters, but THRUST.

I looked at 8 hp Yamahas and Hondas the other day that spin a huge prop and would be more than adequate for our boats.

Conversely, I have a 6 hp 2 stroke Johnson that I use for racing now because it is light and doesn't drag. While it will move the boat in flat water fine, and get me out of the marina (all I want out of it), no way would I want to count on it if the going was rough and I was fighting headwinds and the resultant SEAS that go with it....

If you are on a smaller lake you can get by with less. In my opinion, do NOT buy a 15 hp 2 stroke; you can get a smaller engine with a high thrust prop (not one made for pushing around a fishing boat), and be far better off.

If I was buying today, I would get an 8 hp Honda or Yamaha high thrust four stroke for power, efficiency, quiet, economy, the environment, etc. etc....

Gary B.
commodore of vice.
s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2004 : 20:56:40

I think the consensus will be that 8 to 10 HP is plenty of power.

High-thrust models with big prop and low gearing are a plus.
Extra long shaft (23"+) nearly essential for all but 'flat water' venues.
A good long-travel, high-lift assist mount is needed for the bigger, heavier motors.

Many figure that a 4 stroke is the way to go due to environmental laws either on the books already or coming your way very soon. (rightly or wrongly).

You have 3 choices when it comes to 4 strokes... Yamaha, Honda or Tohatsu/Nissan.

The Tohatsu/Nissan model just came out this spring and is a lot lighter than the Yamaha and Honda... many of us are eagerly awaiting extended owner reports.

Edited by - on

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2004 : 09:31:16

I have a new Honda 5hp which pushes the boat along at 5.3 knots on a calm day. I do lose a little headway in a blow, but then I'm sailing anyway! I didn't want the transom weight of a 8 or 9.9hp four stroke. I guess it just depends where you're sailing and how often you intend to motor.

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Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2004 : 09:49:58

I've owned a couple Yamahas and Hondas, all 8-10 hp. Currently using a high thrust 8.
By far the best motor for starting/ stopping and tight maneuvers has been the high thrust 8. It has a lot more grip on the water, esp. in reverse. At first I thought the 8 was driving the boat a little slower, but looking at the logs from last year prove otherwise. I’d probably say the best motor for your boat would be:
XL shaft
High Thrust
7-9 hp
< 100 pounds
Cost less than and arm and a leg.

Of course, reality says there will be compromise on one or two things.

Edited by - Doug on 05/25/2004 09:57:55

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2004 : 14:05:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">3 choices when it comes to 4 strokes... Yamaha, Honda or Tohatsu/Nissan<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Also, some people swear by the Suzuki.

As for minimum size, I think it's basically personal preference based on your tolerance for moving slower with a smaller motor. Sometimes I have to motor over long ocean distances, albeit usually only when there's little or no wind, so for me my old, reliable 6 hp Suzuki 2-stroke works fine. On the other hand my dock neighbor seems completely satisfied by the power offered by his Tohatsu 6 hp 4 stroke on his Bristol Channel Cutter (a lot heavier than our C25's), even into the wind (conditions often experienced returning north from points south like Dana Point, Oceanside, San Diego, etc.) -- I don't know if I'd feel comfortable with a motor that small on a boat that size. Ken, it sounds like you currently want quite a bit more power/thrust than your older Johnson gives you. The Yamaha or Honda high thrust models others described should work well in that regard, but you will pay a significant price in weight (both the motor's and your wallet's). The Tohatsu/Nissan can save you some weight and money, but probably won't give you as much thrust as the Yamaha or Honda (with their relatively enormous props). I'm not sure, but my guess is that the newer Suzuki's thrust is in the middle range of the Tohatsu/Nissan. In any case, as you are new to boating, you may want to take a little time in deciding, so you can get a better feel about your real tolerance to moving slower, lifting/lowering a heavier engine, removing a heavier engine for maintanence, putting lots of money into the boat, etc. Like I said, everyone's different and you may not yet know how you feel about all these issues. Whatever you decide, good luck and have fun!

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2004 : 14:48:07

After a month with my new high thrust prop, I think I've come to the conclusion (for me anyway) that the high thrust performance is not all that it's cracked up to be and, quite frankly, the only performance difference I can tell is at cruising speeds and that performance is poor.

Firstly, around the docks I manuever so slowly that I could probably use a hand-powered egg beater to stop and start my boat, let alone a high thrust prop. Because of this, I don't realize the enhanced performance of the higher thrust setup.

Secondly, of my outboard's total runtime, maybe 1 percent is used around the docks with open water use occupying the other 99 percent. I find the only thing the high thrust prop gives me this 99 percent of the time, is higher rpms (poor fuel economy) and slower speeds.

So with the virtually imperceptive performance realized around the docks and the poor fuel economy at speed, for me, the high thrust prop just doesn't make sense.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2004 : 18:05:33

As to the "upgrade" It probably was upgraded to 8hp. In that era the 9.9 and 15 were the same except for carbueration It would not surprise me if the same situation existed between the 6 and 8. Many people have made the change on the 9.9

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2004 : 01:46:23

Don: Sounds to me like you have a "high thrust prop" on a "fishing boat outboard". The Yamaha high thrust outboard that is intended for pushing sailboats is designed considerably different than just the prop size. I think you might want to examine and try the set up before you dismiss "high thrust".

I once towed in a 28' Bayliner with flying bridge, etc. behind my C25. We were making about 4 knots. Drove him nuts, but lots of engines couldn't have done it at all.

Recently put my Yammy on an Ericson 27 (7000# displacement before all the gear) before a 200+ mile ocean race. His Merk 2 stroke 8 hp wouldn't quite manage 5 knots in flat water. The Yammy pushed it to just under 8 knots on the KM. Yes, it may have been reading a bit high, but the difference was amazing......(luckily, we finished the race without using the outboard, but it got us out over the Columbia River Bar, and into the harbor in Victoria, B.C)

Gary B.
Encore #685 SK/SR
Vice Commodore

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Catman
Deckhand

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USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2004 : 13:17:14

Before I bought my C25, I had an electric start 15 HP 1989 Evinrude with a long shaft. The motor that came with my boat is a 1984 9.9 Johnson Sailmaster, electric start. Being a newbie, which motor would you keep and which motor would you sell? I have remote controls that will work with either motor.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2004 : 13:26:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Catman
 Before I bought my C25, I had an electric start 15 HP 1989 Evinrude with a long shaft. The motor that came with my boat is a 1984 9.9 Johnson Sailmaster, electric start. Being a newbie, which motor would you keep and which motor would you sell? I have remote controls that will work with either motor.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Pete,

If both motors are in similar condition, I would first select the longest shaft of the two, but if they are of equal length, I would opt for the lightest.

An argument for keeping the 9.9 is that you might get a few more dollars for the newer 15 Hp outboard.

Edited by - dlucier on 05/26/2004 13:26:57

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2004 : 14:12:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary B.
 Don: Sounds to me like you have a "high thrust prop" on a "fishing boat outboard"...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Gary,

Uhhh...I don't know if my long shaft Mercury was specifically designed for a "fishing boat", but it was designed to use a range of prop sizes depending on application.

I recently removed a 9" x 9" prop and installed a larger diameter, lower pitch 9 3/4" x 6.5" prop (even though I could've went as low as 9 3/4" x 5.5") which was recommended for low speed, high power applications like sailboats and barges.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gary B.
 I once towed in a 28' Bayliner with flying bridge, etc. behind my C25. We were making about 4 knots. Drove him nuts, but lots of engines couldn't have done it at all...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I understand that some high thrust motors may have a different lower end gearing in conjunction with the low pitch prop, but since I don't have a need for fast take-offs, crash braking, or towing 28' Bayliners with flying bridges, the benefits may be lost on me.

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