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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Arlyn, your right about single line reefing

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/05/2004 : 21:06:55

I tried my single line reefing today for the first time and it did not pull the reef tack forward enough. So I just hooked it on the rams head reef hook and pull the line and the reef clew did very nicely. So much for reefing from the cockpit.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2004 : 21:52:44

Did you pull the boom up with the topping lift to completely un-weight the bottom of the main?

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 08:32:28

You may need to move the cheek block on the forward part of the boom closer to the gooseneck. On Snickerdoodle the forward cheek block is just at the front edge of the boom.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 10:17:53

A couple of comments.

Oscar... the C25 has an outboard reefing settup hence no cheek block on the mast like the 250 that tends to draw the tack forward hence why Bill is suggesting the cheek block has to be as far forward as possible. Because there is no cheek block making a 180 degree bend, it also has less drag in the system.

Frank, running the line to the furtherest forward mast turning block might help slightly but I'm betting still is inadequate. How about adding a cheek block to the mast a little below the gooseneck height to route the line down to the turning block. The tack should then be drawn forward at a better angle. A cheek block there, wouldn't offer serious resistance as it would only be turning the line about 45 degrees. Of course, as Bill suggest, the boom cheek block still has to be fully forward.

Bill, what do you think, are two more rivet holes in the mast justified?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 13:07:40

I'm sure this is all simple mechanics but any sketches?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 14:40:21

Well this cheek block position it too far back and does not allow for the length of the reef hook and block that hang in the reef cringle. I think I will take the line out of the cheek and run it straight from the cringle block to a turning block on the forward corner of the halyard plate. Maybe that will get it done, I fear that the tack not being secured to the boom will not work though.
OR; maybe I should toss the hook and block and simply by pass the small cheek and run it from under the the big cheek, run it through the cringle to a cheek block on the other side of the boom... Maybe I don't need to run it through the port cheek block, just through the cringle and down to the port side of the boom to the turning block on the starboard side as it is now. That would hold it hard on the boom if the reef line doesn't chafe on the gooseneck.
The ram's head reef hook was very difficult to get the cringle onto as well, I think there is a critical angle that needs to be found there.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 15:04:43

If I follow you . . . what if you mounted the large cheek block on the mast (turned 90 degrees and down a bit) and moved the cringle block to where the large cheek block is now (or even forward a little more) . . . hence pulling the tack down and forward?
Too bad you couldn't secure the reef hook with a knot directly on the reef line to keep it from sliding aft.

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 15:22:01

Frank,

I go from deck block at mast up to luff cringle, through and down to cheek block, back to cheek block, up and through leech cringle, down to cheek block, and forward to cleat.

Pulls cringles down to boom, luff cringle forward, and leech cringle aft. The aft cheek blocks are located slightly aft of the leech cringle's location on the boom.

All seems to work extremely well. ;-)

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 17:52:01

The axiom that a picture is worth a thousand words comes true again. In the picture, your use of a floating block with the reef hook is the cause of the aft positioning of the reef tack. Further, the use of a reef hook here is anti to the plan using a single line reef routed to the cockpit, as it requires going forward and setting the hook.

Much better to route the line from the aft cheek block forward to the forward cheek block at which it is turned up and runs through the reef cringle and then down the port side to a turning block on the port side of mast if run to port clutch or aft of the mast if run to a starboard clutch. Such would reduce the blocks needed by two (one cheek and the block attached to the reef hook).

Edited by - on

skipn809
Navigator

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111 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 18:31:41

For what it is worth, I do it Arlyn's way and it works for me.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 19:18:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Antares
 
I go from deck block at mast up to luff cringle, through and down to cheek block, back to cheek block, up and through leech cringle, down to cheek block, and forward to cleat . . . Pulls cringles down to boom, luff cringle forward, and leech cringle aft. The aft cheek blocks are located slightly aft of the leech cringle's location on the boom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Easy for you to say.

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Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 19:30:46

Cheeky, eh?

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 19:52:03

I'm about to rig a single-line system, and plan to put a cheek block on the mast (instead of the forward end of the boom) to pull the line forward from the tack on its way to the swivel block at the mast base. Has anybody actually done that? What about the position of the block? I was thinking just about the level of the boom to get roughly a 45-degree pull at the bottom.

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joe keith
1st Mate

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USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 19:55:06

You don't need a single line reef to get reefing from the cockpit. You can do it with two, one for the tack and one for the clue. Although one is nice since there is less to lead back. I have read on some sail makers web sight (sorry don't recall where) that they don't recommend single line systems, too much stress on some part of the sail during the reefing process. They recommend getting the luff tensioned first and then the clue.

Also the advice on raising the boom with the topping lift is right on no mater what system you have.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 21:21:14

"advice on raising the boom with the topping lift is right on"
Strangely, on "TSU" we never adjust the topping lift to reef and have no problems whatsoever! Just keep going to weather, drop main halyard to pre-marked point, haul on reefing line making sure that clew comes down to the boom, re-tension halyard and keep on trucking!

Dave - if you put the block on (say) the stbd side of the mast, reef the main and then let the main all the way out to port, what happens with the extra tension on the reef line? Wouldn't something be likely to tear...

Derek

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/06/2004 : 22:15:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 . . . if you put the block on (say) the stbd side of the mast, reef the main and then let the main all the way out to port, what happens with the extra tension on the reef line? Wouldn't something be likely to tear...

Derek
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Derek, you're absolutely right (I questioned that as I wrote the above - honest I did!) The config below would solve that.

Sorry Arlyn, I now see that I repeated your suggestion regarding the cheek block on the mast

Compliments of Harken

Edited by - OJ on 06/06/2004 22:35:43

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2004 : 08:23:09

Good pic OJ. In my opinion, if one all ready has a cheek block on the boom located fully forward, then it will probably as many have suggested, work fine. If it needs some further pull forward, a cheek block on the port side of mast would likely solve the issue.

If two cheek blocks are used on the mast as in OJ's drawing, boom position shouldn't be an issue as movement would cancel or balance.

Joe is quite right, two line reefing can be done if one has another clutch.

The sail loft site that discourages single line reefing is Pineapple Sails.

While not part of this discussion so far, I have the opinion that most c25s set up for only one reef, compared to a 250 which needs two, and at times, I've wished for a third.

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2004 : 09:31:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 
If two cheek blocks are used on the mast as in OJ's drawing, boom position shouldn't be an issue as movement would cancel or balance.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actually (for what it's worth (and for those who care

)) the piece of hardware on the port side of the mast in the drawing is a fairlead.

Pretty anal bunch aren't we

Edited by - OJ on 06/07/2004 09:34:26

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2004 : 12:47:04

Hi all,

On Hey Jude I rigged single-line set-ups for both (first and second) reefs. The two reefing lines are led aft to the stbd side. The triple clutch therefore has the main halyard and two reefing lines. I ease the main way out and pull in the reefing line until the clew comes down to the cheek block. Then I ease out the halyard while continuing to pull on the reefing line, until the tack comes down to the boom. Take any slack out of the second reef line.

Same procedure for the second reef if you need it.

You trim in the mainsheet enough to go forward and tie the reefing strings. (Be sure to hook on) Then, you set the main for the wind. Sometimes, when it is really rough, I don't tie the strings.

It takes less than 30 seconds to do this singlehanded. But, even with all lines led aft, singlehanding is a lot of work. I like my tillerpilot, but when it is blowing hard, I often just put my bungie cord on the tiller, then let the boat settle down with the jib alone before reefing. The different forces at work as you let out the main then trim after reefing can put a lot of strain on the tillerpilot.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2004 : 16:18:43

I have a cheek block at the forward end of the boom. The reefing line runs from the cheek block aft, forward through the forward cheek block, up through a floating block (thanks for the term, Arlyn) attached to a hook in the grommet, then down to a turning block at the base of the mast, to a deck organizer, and aft to the clutch. It has worked perfectly for years. Frank, if you'd take out that second cheek block from the gooseneck I think your system would work better and you could forget the ram's horns

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 06/07/2004 16:20:29

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2004 : 17:18:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brooke Willson
 Frank, if you'd take out that second cheek block from the gooseneck I think your system would work better and you could forget the ram's horns

Brooke
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I will try that first.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2004 : 21:38:00

I like that Harken configuration--that seems to address Derek's concern. Thanks, Steve--that's probably what I'll do.

BTW, it seems to me that if you ease the halyard enough, the topping lift will support the boom even as you tension the reefing line, with no stress on the reef clew and hopefully not too much resistance on the line. Then, as you tension the halyard, the topping lift goes slack--without any need to adjust it. Does that sound reasonable? I do plan on making my topping lift adjustable from the cockpit by cutting it several feet above the boom, tying a block to its end (maybe splicing it some day), and running a line from the boom end up through the block, back down to a block on the boom, forward to the mast, and back to a clutch.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/07/2004 21:52:36

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2004 : 22:14:11

Dave - you can save a few bucks by tying a bullet block with becket to the end of the topping lift about 2' above the boom, and then running it down thru' a double fiddle block with a V-jam cleat attached to the end of the boom. This gives you (I think) a 3-1 purchase and it's easily adjustable from the cockpit (I don't think I've ever had to adjust it with the boom way out). Using 3/16" line you can use smaller (and less expensive!) blocks.
Derek

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2004 : 23:59:26

You guys are cracking me up......

Cheek to cheek

Oscar, on the road in Lost Wages.

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