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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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To bar or not to bar......

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/18/2004 : 14:56:03

I've been reading a lot, and I know that the infiltration of water through the gel-coat into the laminate with the resulting osmosis can happen to new boats, or later in life. In addition to using laminates with resins less susceptible to osmosis, the guru's nowadays recommend an epoxy or vinylester barrier coat on new bottoms; it slows down the infiltration.

But what about old bottoms. For those lucky enough to buy a blister free older boat

some say to strip the paint (which it needs anyway in this case because it's a mess) and to apply a barrier coat , to protect into the future. Others say that unless you park the boat on the hard untill it is completely dry (this can take months) you will trap whatever moisture is there, and make things worse.

The boat will be in the water year round. Any thoughts?

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Lady Kay IV, Dragonfly 25 # 54 Former C30#618-C250WB#618-C42#76

Edited by - Oscar on 06/18/2004 14:57:42

arlingva
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2004 : 20:58:41

I think everyone is so jealous they are refusing to talk to you.

Bill

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2004 : 21:11:53

And the 42 forum is about as exciting as watching paint dry, plus they have no sense of humor..... I guess I'll just regress into a lonely sailing lifestyle.......

Won the battle lost the war....woe me......

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - Oscar on 06/18/2004 21:22:02

nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2004 : 21:46:33

I'm here for you Oscar....250 or boring ol' 42!!

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2004 : 21:46:49

Oscar,

I think it was Gougeon Brothers that recommended taping plastic to the boot stripe to create a tent around the entire bottom portion of the hull - placing a circulation fan at the stern with a small opening at the bow. That suggestion was for drying out opened gel coat blisters and they said that would take about two weeks. Perhaps your boatyard has a moisture meter?

As for barrier coat, I believe Interlux System 2000E had a pretty low threshold on humidity - something like 55%? You may have already missed that window. The problem with this product is that you have to apply it so liberally in order for the plates or shingles to lay down correctly - which results in a pretty heavy stipling. I sanded the fifth and final coat (or 12 mils) to smooth things out and it was like sanding concrete. The air pressure required for applying it with a spray gun was so high that would require commerical duty equipment.

Isn't it a pain to do things correctly

?

FWIW - I used VC-17 over the 2000E, bulletproof combination.

BTW, are you saying "To bare or not to bare" with a strong southern accent or am I missing (wouldn't be the first time) something here?

Edited by - OJ on 06/19/2004 00:22:46

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2004 : 21:52:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Oscar
 And the 42 forum is about as exciting as watching paint dry, plus they have no sense of humor..... I guess I'll just regress into a lonely sailing lifestyle.......

Won the battle lost the war....woe me......

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes; poor Oscar.

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2004 : 00:55:14

This topic has been done here several times. Do a search about bottom coat or Barrier coat. I have handed off the Guru duty to Mark Maxwell he did his last.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2004 : 08:50:28

Skauuse me.....there is indeed a lot of helpful information here on the HOW.....(thank you). But my question is whether to do it in the first place on a blister free older boat or not....I'm getting conflicting signals, and would like to pose the question to a broader forum.

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - Oscar on 06/19/2004 08:51:17

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2004 : 10:39:37

OK, Oscar, here comes nothing... First, blistering is a much more common problem in fresh water than salt. Apparently fresh "osmotes"

more easily through various polymers. Second, how old is the boat, how much time has it spent in the water, and what was the salinity compared to where you'll have her? You might reasonably conclude that if she hasn't blistered yet, she isn't likely to do so any time soon. (Bottom paint doesn't prevent anything but fouling.) But I won't offer that conclusion for you.

If you really don't want to go wrong, strip her, coat her, coat her again, and.......

But your question is sorta like, "There's a 20% chance of rain today and I don't own an umbrella--should I buy one?"

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 06/19/2004 10:56:04

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2004 : 10:41:53

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" - Unknown

"If it ain't broke, you're not try'n" - Red Green

Hope this helps

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2004 : 12:15:20

I like Red Green. And with close to 500 square feet of bottom (times 4 coats) it's about a $500.- umbrella.....and two days non stop just to get it on.....welcome to the big league I guess....

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - Oscar on 06/19/2004 12:21:46

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5907 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2004 : 22:32:08

A Catalina Dealer told me Catalina overcame the worst of the blister problem in 1989. I've heard Catalina now warrants new boats against blisters, provided the owner doesn't sand the bottom. If that's true, and if your boat was built after 1989, and if the previous owner didn't mess up the bottom by sanding it or getting a repair, then you're probably pretty safe in not applying a barrier coat. On the other hand, once the old bottom paint is stripped off, there's no better time to put on a barrier coat. I'm sure stripping is the biggest part of the labor.

Having considered those two alternatives, I'd opt for the third alternative. Call Catalina and ask for their recommendation. They built the boat, and they're real experts (unlike us) and they know better than anyone what would be best, because they know how many reports they have or haven't received about blisters in your production year. (I'll bet they suggest you apply a barrier coat. It won't cost that much, and it could save you a lot of grief.)

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2004 : 01:29:37

I was unsure whether on not to barrier coat my old 25 last spring. She'd had a handful of small blisters over the years, but nothing much. I kept her under a shed roof for months, but asked the boatyard where I had worked for awhile. (check the thread about the mashed 25 and you'll know why I am not there anymore!). They loaned me a moisture meter. I checked the boat, found only a couple of small spots where the meter read in the "red" (I forget the exact percentage). The advice of the yard....."DO IT!" I did and this spring she looked as smooth as a baby's behind. I would not barrier coat a boat like yours IF a moisture meter showed a very high percentage of water already in the hull......otherwise, "DO IT!"

Gary B.
Commodore of Vice

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 06/20/2004 : 23:09:23

Gary is on the right track. After more reading, it appears that older boats, either remedial or as a preventative measure, can benefit from a barrier coat if the hull has a very low moisture content. In other words, if you're sealing in moisture, you're wasting your time.

Three people with three moisture meters get three different readings. It's a very difficult art. A very close approximation of the truth can be obtained by stripping down to the gelcoat, and covering an area about a foot square with food wrap, and taping it off hermetically with waterproof tape. After 48 or so hours you will either see moisture, in varying quantities, or not.

You can then draw some conclusions. If the boat is "wet" it would have to dry first before barrier coating. This can take weeks, or months. I am not waiting that long. In that case, it's bottom paint and splash. Maybe somewhere down the road when I know I won't be able to sail for a while .......

Oscar
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - Oscar on 06/20/2004 23:16:54

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