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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Whisker Pole

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Brent
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/21/2004 : 00:01:41

I have recently purchased an '84 which came to me with an aluminum whisker pole. It appears to be a twist-lock type pole. Slowly I am learning how it works but have some questions.

I understand how it attaches to the pad eye, but I do not fully understand how it attaches to the jib / jib sheet. The outboard end fitting has a hook and sheave that would appear to ride on the sheat. There are no other fittings on the pole and there do not appear to be any other fittings for the pole on the boat, other than the pad eye. Any help on attaching and using the pole would be appreciated.

Brent

Brent
84 C25 SK/TR

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 07:59:13

Hi Brent. Welcome to the forum! I'm assuming that you have a Forespar ADJ 6-12 adjustable whisker pole, or similar pole. A whisker pole has a "whisker" or a pin on one end, and a clip on the other end. You insert the pin in the grommet at the clew of the jib. Then you attach the clip to the pad eye on the mast. The pole should go between the forward lower stay and the upper mast stay. The jib sheet should be adjusted so that the pole doesn't touch either stay. The Forespar ADJ 6-12 should only be used in light to moderate winds. Stronger winds or gusts will break it.

Edited by - on

Brent
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 08:59:05

Thanks, I am glad to be here! The pad eye eye on my boat is about 4'6" off of the cabin top. At this height if the whisker pole is inbetween the forward lower stay and the upper mast stay it would appear to have a very limited range of lateral motion. I can only assume that bad things happen if it comes in strong contact with the standing rigging, one or the other will yield.

If the pin goes into the clew grommet, what is the sheave for. The sheave is just inboard of the clew. It is positioned to take an inboard compression load, that is why I thought the sheat would travel on it.

I will go out to the marina this morning and verify the make. Maybe snap a picture.

Brent

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 09:40:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The pole should go between the forward lower stay and the upper mast stay. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think so! The pole should go forward of the forward lower, lest it break the stay should the boat round up or gybe. Brent's instincts are right.

Brent, the pole should approximately be opposite the boom when poled out. The length of the pole should be equal to the foot of the sail it's holding. The outboard end clips to the sheet, not the clew grommet.

You may find that the mast ring is not the right height. Many folks put a track on their mast and an adjustable ring on the track.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 10:28:40

Dan Dickison responds:
Thanks for your question. A whisker pole is conventionally attached to the clew of a headsail at one end and the mast at the other end. Some whisker poles are designed as telescoping spars so that you can adjust them to ensure that you're presenting as much of the surface area of the sail as possible to the wind, which is the purpose of using a whisker pole.
Essentially you attach the clew end first, and then the pole end, and then tension the sheet to keep the pole attached to the clew.
Some whisker poles have a fitting at the outboard end that simply protrudes through the clew ring, and some have fittings that capture the clew ring within a piston-and-jaw arrangement. And most whisker poles attach to the mast by way of a similar end fitting using a piston.

I tie a knot 1" back from my clew and clip my piston clamp on the sheet between my clew and my knot. I have only seen the whisker pin type of end on dingy whiskers.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 10:44:19

Brent - the pole should be horizontal when it's attached to sail & mast. Your 4' 6" seems a little high unless you have a jib that's not a "deck sweeper".
Also, especially if you sail in shifty winds, set the pole ahead of the forward lower shroud. This gives you much more flexibility as you can "rotate" the whole sail plan as the wind goes forward or back. You can effectively carry the pole almost to a beam reach (remembering to trim or ease the main simultaneously so that the pole and boom remain in a straight line). Never trim the pole back so far that it impinges on the forward lower - about an inch space is ideal.
Derek

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 11:49:10

Go to the Forespar site and check out their discussion on whisker
poles. Some of the information you are getting here conflicts with
conventional wisdom. For example: It is unsafe to connect the pole
directly to the clew cringle or clew bowline. It should be connected
to the sheet so the sail can be let fly without banging the forestay in an emergency.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 11:52:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The pole should go forward of the forward lower, lest it break the stay should the boat round up or gybe.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> When extended, a little, 2" diameter, lightweight aluminum pole couldn't break a stay under any circumstances. The pole would break first. I've set my whisker pole that way for almost 25 years, and broke one pole because I set it in too much wind. I never broke a pole or a stay because of the pole touching a stay. Remember, the Forespar ADJ 6-12 should only be used in light to moderate winds. If you try to set it in stronger winds, the pole will bend out of column, like a pole vaulter's pole, and then break. If you only set it in light to moderate winds, there's no reason for the boat to round up or jibe, unless the helmsman isn't paying attention. A true whisker pole, that has only a pin on the outboard end, can only be attached by putting the pin through the clew. There's no way of attaching a whisker pin to the jibsheet.

There is enough room for fore-and-aft adjustment between the forward lower and the upper shroud so that you can make appropriate adjustments for broad reaching. The adjustment of the jib sheet keeps the pole off the shroud.

Derek Crawford, who is a first-rate racer, suggests setting the whisker pole forward of the forward lower, as Brooke recommends, but, in order to spread the sail properly that way, you need a longer and stronger pole than an ADJ 6-12. As I recall, Derek uses a pole that is about 16-17' long, and I'm sure it is a larger diameter and thus stronger than the ADJ 6-12. You have to set the pole in a way that is appropriate to its length and strength, in order to get the best performance and not break the pole.

Re-reading your description, I don't think you have an ADJ 6-12. I'm looking through a catalogue that has Forespar and Ronstan poles and fittings, and don't see any that have a sheave, although I have a recollection of having seen a pole with a sheave like that in the distant past. I don't think they are commonplace. I believe your pole is primarily designed to be used as a spinnaker pole, and not as a whisker pole, although it can probably be used for either purpose. I would attach the clip end to the mast padeye, with the throat downward, and then put the other end through the jib clew, also with the throat downward. I think that would work, although you won't know for sure until you try it out. You can try putting it on the jibsheet, but I don't think it would stay on very well, because there's nothing to hold it in place. On a spinnaker, the sail's pull is upwards, and the pole is stabilized by a topping lift and the afterguy. You don't have that on a whisker pole. If neither of those methods of attachment works to your satisfaction, you can always replace the end fitting with one that is more appropriate for use as a whisker pole.

Personally, I never liked the whisker pin fitting, and replaced it with a clip end fitting, like the one that attaches to the padeye on the mast. If the pole has a whisker pin fitting on the outboard end, I can't set the pole when I'm singlehanding the boat. The clip fitting securely attaches the outboard end of the pole to the jib's clew and holds it there until I can scramble back to the cockpit and adjust the jib sheet.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 06/21/2004 12:00:45

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 12:32:15

I agree with Steve that it sounds like a spinnaker pole. I also think he's right about attaching it to the clew rather than the sheet, since there's no lift or other forces to keep it at the clew. But I still don't agree with running the pole through the triangle. Maybe when I finally get one I'll learn otherwise. My 17' Mobjack worked pretty differently.

My understanding is that the common C25 pole is the Forespar ADJ 7-17 twistlock pole. That's what Catalina Direct sells, and that's what's on my wish list.

Brooke

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 12:38:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If the pole has a whisker pin fitting on the outboard end, I can't set the pole when I'm singlehanding the boat. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

While certainly not elegant, or appropriate if racing, I've been able to set my ADJ 6-12 pole with outboard pin in stages, dashing back and forth from the cockpit to let the jib sheet out as I extend the pole. Clearly, the clip fitting would make setting the pole easier.

West Marine and others usually sell the end fittings. Once I broke the pin (Forespar calls it a "spike") while stowing it and my local WM was out, so I called Forespar direct -- the sales guy sent me one free!

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 12:47:14

Steve - you are quite correct about my whisker pole. It's a Forespar ADJ 7-17, 3-part telescoping. When using it on the 155% genoa it measures 15' 9 1/4" and it is (I think!) 2 1/2" in diameter. Incidentally, for easy extension to the correct length, I rigged a wire between the bridles at each end, so that when that wire is snug against the pole it is set for the 155%. It also makes it much easier to trip either end.
Derek

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 12:54:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">While certainly not elegant, or appropriate if racing, I've been able to set my ADJ 6-12 pole with outboard pin in stages, dashing back and forth from the cockpit to let the jib sheet out as I extend the pole. Clearly, the clip fitting would make setting the pole easier. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I'm at the age where I only have the energy to make one trip forward and back. I have to get the job done the first time, or forget about it.

Edited by - on

Brent
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 13:18:22

Here are the pictures of the pole ends.
Inboard

Outboard

It has a tag on it that indicates it is a whisker pole.

Edited by - on

Brent
1st Mate

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USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 13:19:24

Sorry, I reversed the labeling of the pictures.

Brent

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 14:21:46

The pictures help. I would attach the sheeve end to the jib sheet, with the long, hooked end on top. If the pole extends to more than about 14' in length. I would set it forward of all the shrouds. If it is less than that length, I would set it between the forward lower and the upper shroud.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2004 : 14:37:39

You have it oriented properly and the sheet will run on the sheave while the arm is resting on the sheet. It is not my favored type of end, but you can certainly let the sail out. I think you can drop the arm over the sheet and then shove it to the clew.

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