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Rope Halyards

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Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/23/2002 : 09:41:08

Do I need to go internal to go to all rope halyards? It looks like the side-by-side sheaves for external halyards can't be large enough for rope (with the current masthead casting), although a rigger told me I should be able to use rope in my current sheaves--looks to me it would be really small stuff. My Cat Direct book only shows 2 sheaves to replace the 4, meaning they're internal.

Has anyone gone all rope without going internal? I'm just not ready to cut big holes in my mast, but I want to run the main halyard back to the cockpit. (The genny is on a roller.)

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

PS: Don't take the promotion too seriously, guys--I'm really a newbie!

Edited by - bristle on 02/23/2002 09:42:59

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3323 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2002 : 10:15:21

Dave - congrats on becoming our first Flag Officer (I guess this gives you the seniority to become Admiral of the Fleet <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
I have 3 halyards - 1 wire/rope for the main, 1 all rope for the genoa, and a third, which goes over the spinnaker sheave at the front of the masthead, for any headsail change. At the masthead itself I only have 2 sheaves and my halyards are external. All three rope lines are 5/16". Hope this helps.
Derek

Edited by - on

Bristle
Admiral

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834 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2002 : 11:09:20

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
At the masthead itself I only have 2 sheaves and my halyards are external. All three rope lines are 5/16". Hope this helps.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Derek: I can't picture that. I have 4 sheaves, 2 side-by-side at the forward and aft ends of the masthead. Each wire halyard goes up forward (main) or aft (genny) and through 2 sheaves to get to the other side. The 2-sheave setup seems to require that the lines run up through the mast... Does your main halyard go over a single sheave on the aft end of the masthead, and genoa on the forward end? I'm not sure mine extends far enough to do that.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3323 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2002 : 15:48:47

Dave - I have an '81 and I replaced the sheaves about 5 years ago - I seem to remember there were only 2 of them (the spinnaker sheave is on a crane forward) and my halyards are definitely external. Maybe I should go back up the mast and refresh my memory...!
Derek

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Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2002 : 16:59:32

NO! NO!!! <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> I'll figure it out! Thanks anyway!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2002 : 17:26:48

I replaced my sheves and went to all rope. They are not the same size. There are 4. Two forward and two aft. The set cost me 12$ from Catalina direct. The mast head was also replaced due to a crack. The mast head is anvil shaped so the halyard goes up one side accross the top and down the other side. Be sure to use low strech halyards. The job only takes a few minutes with mast down. Replace bulbs and check the antena at the same time.

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EricCS
1st Mate

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USA
40 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2002 : 21:39:52

Dave,

I replaced the shieves on Charm a couple of years ago when on broke. The replacement came from Catalina Direct. The halyards were and are external. There are still four shieves -- just as for the wire halyards -- but I understand the new ones are larger to accommodate the fiber lines.

HTH

Eric Spitzner, AP (eric@snet.net)
Catalina 25 #4445 "Charm"
41°16.18'N 72°54.03'W

Edited by - on

c25sailor
Past Commodore

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USA
138 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2002 : 08:53:00

I just switched to all rope, replacing my sheaves with 5/16" (4 of 'em) from CD, and they are external. For the pics, see my projects page in my web site. One of these days, I gotta get them put on our Assn Tech Tips...

http://home.attbi.com/~c25sailor/projects.html

Ed Jakubas
Lucyna II
1982 TR/SK #2801
<img src="http://home.attbi.com/~c25sailor/images/RailwashProfile.jpg" border=0>

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Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2002 : 10:15:19

Thanks, guys! I was worried that fatter sheaves wouldn't fit, but I can see that they're not really fatter--just shallower.

Ed: Did you create that site just to answer my question? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2002 : 15:32:16

Dave,

On another note you really don't have to cut big holes to go internal...Matter of preference though.

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 national Org.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2dc20b3127cce9cd2f45b211a0000004010" border=0>

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Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2002 : 17:27:04

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>On another note you really don't have to cut big holes to go internal...Matter of preference though.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

OK Duane--how do you get them outa there?

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

Edited by - bristle on 02/24/2002 17:29:31

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teamwike
1st Mate

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82 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2002 : 22:28:28

Duane, I too am courious about what it takes to make my halyards internal. What do you do about the internal wiring for Ant. and lights? Also, What did you use to cut the holes.
Thanks
Max in Jaxs
This project is pretty far down the list, but nice to know what to expected when I reach it.

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Nancy Cole
Deckhand

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USA
22 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2002 : 18:21:01

Hi Dave

I have a really basic question - before we even get to the internal/external debate - why do you want rope halyards? I've never thought about it much but I may add it to my Spring list.

Nancy

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Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

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1595 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2002 : 21:57:08

Hi Nancy: Here is why I like the rope halyards. 1. The crimps on the end of my wire halyards always stuck me with sharp ends so now no meat hooks. 2. With the wire halyars I could only bring the halyard end down to just above deck level. Now I can take them all the way down to the water if I want to pick up the dinghy. 3. During a wind storm the exterior exposed halyard wire would chafe and make marks on the mast, not any more. 4. I can swap halyards end for end to even out wear. 5. everything is color coded. 6. Easy to replace without having to drop the mast. What do the rest of you think. Ill bet to that if anyone goes with internal mast halyards thay wont chafe through a mast wire and short it out.

Edited by - on

Bob Ritner
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2002 : 23:04:44

I recently replaced both the sheaves, went to all line halyards and installed a new masthead casting and ordered all from catalina direct. When you order, they ask if they are internal or external. If external, they do, in fact, send you four. The sheaves from catalina direct, are smaller diameter than the original ones and, as a result, the main halyard line does not quite clear the top of the masthead. Make sure that you grind the head casting smooth at the mast top or your line will chafe. Catalina direct confirmed the difference in sheave diameter. They said that they found the closest off the shelf match they could, so they could keep the cost down and not have to have them specially manufactured. I do not know if Catalina Yachts sells the larger diameter sheave or not.....may be worth checking to avoid chafe.

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Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2002 : 23:15:05

Nancy: Ya, what Doug said... Also, since I want to run the main halyard back to the cockpit (the genny is on a roller), I need to make it longer, so I figure I'll do it the easy way. The cable on the jib halyard, which stays in one position all season, has to wrap around the mast winch to tension the whole furling system--I don't know whether that was the intent, but it's what I have to do. I may be disappointed by the rope for that stationary application--I'm considering leaving the wire for that one. Whadaya think, guys?

I also am thinking of a down-halyard for the main, also led back to the cockpit, so we can yank it down efficiently in a blow. I rigged one for the jib on our previous boat, and liked it alot.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

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Bristle
Admiral

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834 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2002 : 23:20:11

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The sheaves from catalina direct, are smaller diameter than the original ones and, as a result, the main halyard line does not quite clear the top of the masthead. Make sure that you grind the head casting smooth at the mast top or your line will chafe.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Hmmmmm... I don't like the sound of that. I'll have to look closely at that.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2002 : 08:41:21

What it takes to go internal.

First, the question was asked as why. The main reason for us was so the halyard would reach the bow and you could douse a sail and still leave the halyard on because it went all the way to the deck. Other reasons include no more meat hooks, easier to run aft to the cockpit, easier on the hands....

What we did.

Tools:
New sheaves
Dremel Tool
Reciprocating saw
Drill and 1 1/4 inch bit
Halyard exit plates
Fish Tape

Optional Prep:
The first thing we did was rewire the mast. This is entirely optional, but the only way for us to remove the foam that Butler and his boys put in the mast to keep the wires slapping around was to pull it all out. We put a very small piece of PVC Which we riveted in 6 places, two at the bottom, two at the top and one on either side of the steaming light up through the mast.

CUT:
Essentially, there are 3 holes you need to put in the mast. One at the top so the halyards can enter the mast and one on either side, so the halyards can exit. After removing the anchor light and all the additional items from the mast head we drilled two 1 1/4" holes into the masthead cap. You may even want to use a 1 1/2" bit. Both of these holes were at the point where the line would enter the mast. Then using a reciprocating saw we connected the holes so that you have an oval cut out when finished.

The second step is to determine where you want the halyards to exit. Sinc the main is set up to use the winch on the mast, you want that halyard to exit above the winch. For the Jib, you want it to exit above the cleat you are going to use for it. If you plan to lead the lines aft, I would suggest about 1 to two feet above the deck. I am no engineer, but figured if I staggered the exit points I would cause less structural damage. (may or may not be true...)

Cut the holes, using the rotary tool cutting bit, based on the size of your exit plates. These can range from about 6 to 20 dollars. Some have sheaves on them, some are just smooth stainless steel to keep the line from rubbing the cut aluminum. It is very important that you smooth all three holes and check that the line isn't rubbing regardless of your choice of exit plates. (I recommend the exit plates with the sheaves.

Use the fish tape to thread your lines. (Biggest problem is the compression posts. Once you are around them it is smooth sailing. To make it easier on myself I ran the line the length of the entire mast, then fished the one end back five feet through the exit holes. It saved me the hassle of running from one end of the mast to the other, plus I could run the length with both at one time. Once you have the lines run, rivet the exit plates in place. Replace the masthead. Enjoy.

dw

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 national Org.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2dc20b3127cce9cd2f45b211a0000004010" border=0>

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teamwike
1st Mate

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82 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2002 : 10:08:20

Duane, very helpful post. Thanks
Max

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Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2002 : 17:00:39

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Dave,

On another note you really don't have to cut big holes to go internal...Matter of preference though.

Duane Wolff
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

So you DID cut holes to go internal... I think I'll stay external.

Catalina Direct sells a complete kit including 5/16" Crypton dacron/spectra halyards, sheaves, blocks, Harken organizers, Spinlock clutches, mast plate, and all fasteners. They'll customize the kit based on internal vs external and how many lines you want to run aft. I don't have the price yet for the configuration I asked for--we'll see whether it's a reasonable deal.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

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Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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6855 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2002 : 12:26:34

Dave,

I said you don't have to cut "really big" holes...still have to cut some holes...

dw

Duane Wolff
"The Flying Wasp"
C-25, #401 std,sk
Chief Measurer C-25/250 national Org.
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2dc20b3127cce9cd2f45b211a0000004010" border=0>

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Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2002 : 22:36:39

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I said you don't have to cut "really big" holes...still have to cut some holes...
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Duane... To me, anything bigger than 1/8" in the mast is "really big"!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

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