Association Forum - Standing Rigging Tension

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Standing Rigging Tension

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

bbriner
Captain

Member Avatar

349 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/02/2004 : 01:48:53

I was out last weekend in what was about 20kt winds. I had not reefed yet (but was only heeling about 20 degrees so it wasn't at all uncomfortable) and I noticed that the leeward lower shrouds were just swaying back and forth. They were completely limp - no tension at all.

Is this normal and OK? How do I know if/when the shrouds are tensioned properly? The C25 is a very solid performer but I worry about the rigging...

Thx
Bill
Wind Dancer 84 C25 SR/FK

Bill B
Wind Dancer
#4036 84 SR/FK
San Francisco Bay

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2004 : 02:40:47

If the leeward shrouds were limp with the boat heeled at only 20 degrees, I would say the shrouds are probably too loose. But how tight is "just right"? Ask 10 sailors and get 10 (or maybe 11 or even 12) different opinions! Most sailors would probably say they should be tensioned enough that the leeward shrouds don't get loose and floppy even when the boat is almost in a knockdown position. On the other hand, has anyone else reading this post ever owned a MacGregor 25 or 26C, with the multi-hole shroud tensioners instead of turnbuckles? There you have a boat with about the same sail area as a Catalina 25, yet the design of those shroud tensioners doesn't allow them to be tensioned to more than maybe a hundred pounds - not much more tension than you could get by pulling on them by hand. I used to take my Mac 25 out on San Francisco Bay in some pretty stiff breezes, yet I never broke anything, let alone had a dismasting due to the shrouds being "too loose". My point is that there are thousands of MacGregors out there with these loosey-goosy shroud tensioners that seem to be holding up the mast okay, so maybe shrouds tight as a guitar string aren't really necessary. Maybe a real rigging expert - which I ain't by any means - can shed some more light on this, because I'd like to know myself. Especially since my new boat is a Tall Rig, and I'd hate to have it come down on my head some breezy day.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2004 : 07:22:31

Bill, I have the same situation on my C25 and I had always thought the shroud's behavior was normal. Now I'm not so sure. When I went for a sail with Steve Milby on his boat, he had his forward lowers and his middle stays very tight, with his aft lowers very loose. When I get my boat back from the shop I'm going to emulate what he does with his shrouds.

Maybe Steve will chime in on this. Steve (as well as most folks on this board, I'm sure) are Yoda, whereas I often feel more like Bevis in regards to sailing. I learned a lot from Steve that day.

Edited by - on

Dave Laux
Captain

Members Avatar

318 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2004 : 07:38:29

Tuning considerations aside. The more preload, tension when the boat is at rest and the rig unloaded, the lower the amount of additional load that the rigging can support from sail imposed forces. The danger that has to be considered is that when the turnbuckles are loose and swinging around is when the pins will fall out or the body unscrew so make sure your locking devices are in place. If you have open body turnbuckles the split rings make easy to use locking devises, split rings on the clevis pins need tape though cause flailing jib sheets will sometimes hook into and remove them. Dave

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2004 : 09:19:31

Hi Bill

Here's a link to a tuning article that I wrote for the Mainsheet magazine several years ago. The article talks about general tuning.
http://www.catalina25-250.org/tech/tech25/snkmast.html

On Snickerdoodle, I have considerably more tension on the forward lower shrouds so as to spring the middle of the mast forward a couple inches. This flattens the mainsail and helps upwind performance. Since the aft lower shrouds are just past "finger tight", the leeward aft lower is a bit loose in moderate to strong breezes.

BTW: While walking around the marinas in Long Beach CA a few years ago I noticed several C25s with very loose aft lowers. These boats were just sitting in their slips with no sails up. All the boats had adjustable backstay gear. The concept was that for broad reaching and running the backstay tension would be fairly loose - allowing the mast to straighten out. For upwind sailing the backstay was tensioned considerably to spring the mast forward. As the backstay was tensioned and the mast bent, the aft lower shrouds took up the support of the mast and the forward lowers became loose.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2004 : 09:30:07

I don't use a Loos gauge to tune my mast, but I tune the forward lowers and the uppers snugly enough so that the leeward shrouds only go slightly slack in a brisk breeze. The headstay is quite loose, and the aft lowers are adjusted so that they are loose when there is no tension on the backstay adjuster. When the backstay adjuster is fully tensioned, the aft lowers and the headstay become taut. The aft lowers prevent the backstay adjuster from over-bending the mast.

Many C25s (like mine, for instance) were delivered to the owners without having the upper shrouds wired to the spreaders, as they should be. I think that was a task that Catalina left to the dealers when they commissioned the boat, and some of the dealers' employees either didn't know they were supposed to do it, or didn't bother. If the uppers aren't wired to the spreaders, they can jump out of the spreader tip when the shroud goes slack. When you tack, there is no support for the mast, and the mast can break.

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

Members Avatar

349 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 10:41:31

Dave, Bill, Ben, Larry, and Steve - Thanks for the thoughtful responses, and Bill, great article. I don't have a backstay adjuster (I'm wondering about its effectiveness on a masthead rig) but I also noticed that my backstay is looser (still taught though) than the forestay, which may be why I'm getting a bit of lee helm. I've got some tuning to do!

Thx for the help
Bill

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 11:43:00

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I don't have a backstay adjuster (I'm wondering about its effectiveness on a masthead rig) <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">The backstay adjuster works great, but it took me about 20 years to figure out how to tune the rig properly for the backstay adjuster (thanx to Derek Crawford). The backstay adjuster enables you to have the rig very loose for sailing in light air and downwind, and then to tighten everything up with one simple adjustment, for sailing to windward and in strong winds. It enables you to quickly "shift gears," so to speak, while the boat is under way, without having to put a wrench to all those turnbuckles. That being said, you can nevertheless be very competitive without a backstay adjuster.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 12:43:40

Thanks Steve!

Derek

Edited by - on

John Ace
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
24 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 18:58:55

Couldn't sail without a back-stay adjuster for the reasons explained by the Admiral. But when applying back stay tention I also tighten cunningham and outhaul, keep her flat, and move draft forward for pointing.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.