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My WK was de-installed today (pics)

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/06/2004 : 21:59:40

I had my new wing keel removed from the boat today in the first step to installing it properly. I had Joe take some pictures, which I posted below. Joe, my new installer, said it looked as though the original installer did not sand off the bottom paint before he glued the keel to the boat. He said the bonding agent could never hold in that case. Sure enough, on close examination, there was very little bonding material still stuck to the hull, it was all on the keel. But, Joe said, it was on the wrong part of the keel. In the picture of the keel, you will see bonding material on the top round part, where the bolts are, but very little on the part that flares out. The flared out part, Joe said, it what is in contact with the hull. When I looked inside the keel trunk, there was no bonding agent residue on the roof of the trunk, as there should have been if the bonding agent had been in contact with it. I also included a pic of the keel trunk. I have closer pictures as well if anyone is interested. A couple of interesting side effects of the keel drooping were cracks that formed in the white part of the fiberglass going from one side, over the top rounded part, all the way to the other side, as well as a large crack that you can see about a third of the way down the keel in the blue part. Joe said he would fix all that for me.

Joe's waiting on a call back from Catalina tech support to talk to them about the proper way to fix this, and we're going to have to wait for them to ship more bonding agent, but I'm hoping to get my baby back by the end of next week. I love my boat, but my, oh my, this has turned expensive.

I still plan on chasing the original installer.

Thanks ya'll, and happy sailing!

Ben
Beneteau 361
Viking Kitty
Columbus, Ohio

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 22:37:28

Keep your chin up, I think you will have a very nice boat when this gentleman is done.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 22:50:32

Ben, I think you are going to be in a unique position when this is all over. There will be no one who will understand this process better than you. If you want to submit a "consumer's guide to the wing keel retro fit" for the Catalina Mainsheet magazine I will feature it in the C25 tech section, (with Picts of course).

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oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2004 : 23:16:08

Although I'm stating the obvious, the first guy really didn't have a clue as to how to do the job and he shouldn't have attempted to do the work. I hope you're back on the water soon enjoying your boat and have good luck in recovering your loss.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 00:17:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ben
 Joe, my new installer, said it looked as though the original installer did not sand off the bottom paint before he glued the keel to the boat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's difficult for me to believe that anyone with even the slightest experience with boat repair would do something as monumentally incompetant as applying epoxy adhesive without removing existing bottom paint down to clean fiberglass! I guess he didn't even read the instructions on the product label.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 09:27:39

PS His ass is yours! The bottom paint is your smoking gun.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 18:10:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It's difficult for me to believe that anyone with even the slightest experience with boat repair would do something as monumentally incompetant as applying epoxy adhesive without removing existing bottom paint down to clean fiberglass!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Yeah they would. That was one of my first hints that I would be redoing the barrier coat on my C-25 -- I could see old bottom paint through the epoxy, which also had runs in it like candle wax. And the previous owner had been so proud of how much he had recently spent on "professional" bottom work.

-- Leon Sisson

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 07/07/2004 : 19:26:58

Thanks for all your input, advise, and support ya'll. Hopefully we'll get the old girl put back together nice and tight so I can start living aboard. Well, not "living aboard" so to speak, but if I had access to a shower nearby I just might. Heck, I have a lot of catching up to do, gotta get that time back somehow!

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2004 : 14:44:26

Ben,
Keep hanging in there. Imagine the great feeling of having the tiller in your hand, a 15 knot breeze, a little spray on your face.............feel better now?

Your story reminds me of why I do my own work and not let the bass boat bubbas here in Tennessee work on my boat.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2004 : 19:32:26

Thanks for the encouragement Gloss. I hope to get my boat back sometime this coming week. The shop just found more (fixable) problems with the keel today, but which shouldn't delay anything. The hold up seems to be Catalina Yachts. The shop is waiting on word from Kent as to what type of bonding compound to use and if they can get it locally. If they have to get it from Catalina I suspect I will be waiting another couple weeks.

Kent at Catalina wasn't at work today and has been "gathering information" for the shop since Wednesday!

Gosh darn'it! Don't they realize summer is passing me by!?!

Oh well, God is teaching me patience.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2004 : 00:52:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ben
[br I hope to get my boat back sometime this coming week.... Kent at Catalina wasn't at work today.... Gosh darn'it! Don't they realize summer is passing me by!?!

Oh well, God is teaching me patience.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ben - I feel your pain. Since arriving back home from the big road trip to Virginia last September with my new boat in tow, I have spent at least 6 or 8 weekends working on her for every day out sailing. The current project is to retrofit the trailer with new lower crossmembers that are shaped properly to accomodate the wing keel. This trailer is my old one, originally built for my previous swing keel C-25 (#1205), so the cross members are V-shaped for the swing keel, without the flat bottom needed for the wing. In consequence, I had to raise the roller assemblies 4", making the boat sit so high that I have to submerge the back of my truck almost up to the bottom of the tailgate to get the boat back on the trailer (this isn't good for the rear brakes or differential, needless to say). Fabricating the new crossmembers is taking a lot longer than I thought it would since my small, low-powered saws and drills were designed for cutting wood and plastic, not structural steel plate and channel iron. I figure it will take at least three or four more weekends before the whole job is done, by which time summer will be almost over, and I will have had only 5 or 6 days of actually sailing the boat this year

. Next project is to extend the swim ladder 12" so it sits deep enough in the water for me to haul my 48-year-old lard ass out after a swim. The ladder project will consume at least a day, if not the whole weekend. Last but not least, all 4 of the large cabin windows are cracking from 15 years ov UV exposure and will need replacement sooner or later. They are not leaking rainwater yet, so the job isn't urgent, but it's on my list for next spring. I have been warned that the cabin window job is harder than it looks, since the OEM factory adhesive is very strong and requires a LOT of time and effort to cut the old windows free and clean up the old adhesive from the seating surfaces to receive the new windows. At least one whole day per window I have been told.
The upside of having done all this work is that by the beginning of next year's boating season, the whole boat will have been refurbished to like-new condition, with two new sails (delivery promised by the end of the month) and a new Yamaha T8 outboard (to be delivered next week, I hope!). I plan to spend 2005 just ENJOYING my baby.

Your unfortunate experience with this wing keel conversion screw-up may save someone else the agony of a botched job, assuming the next C-25 swing owner going for the conversion gets wind of your problems. I believe that most swing-to-wing conversions that have been done in the recent past were likely begun by owners familiar with this Forum, who researched other owner's postings on the subject, so there's a good chance your boat's unfortunate episode will become known to the people who will need to hear the "How Not To Do It" information. Your postings detailing your saga ought to be compiled and turned into an article in the Tech Tips section of the Forum, and published in the MainSheet.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 07/10/2004 : 10:44:11

Larry can you fit a tongue extension on your trailer?

I can't imagine launching without one... even with the tongue extension, my rear wheels are a few inches into the (salt) water at the ramps on Humboldt Bay.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 07/11/2004 : 11:42:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 Larry can you fit a tongue extension on your trailer?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sure, I could fabricate a tongue extender without too much problem, just buy a length of 3" X 3" X 3/16" tube steel and fit a ball on one end and a coupler on the other. The problem is that the boat launch ramp at Folsom Lake isn't straight, in fact it curves through a total arc of about 20 degrees of bearing between top and bottom, so you have to be able to steer the trailer around the curve as you back down. With an extender, you can't steer the trailer at all, only back it down in a straight line. The other problem is that in the summer season, the launch ramp often has traffic backed up 20 vehicles deep, and the extra time required to rig up the tongue extender would cause a bunch of irate powerboaters to be screaming at me to hurry the &^$# up.
If I lived near the coast, and was launching regularly in salt water, I guess I would use an extender, just to keep my truck out of the water. Or I would just keep the boat in a slip and not have to launch it every day.

In fact, I am seriously considering abandoning Folsom Lake and moving back to Owl Harbor next year. Folsom Lake Marina is closing for the year in two weeks due to low water level, meaning the slip renters got less than 4 months of useage of their slips this year. At $1200 annual rent (and no refunds for premature closure due to low lake level!), the slips at Folsom Lake are actually $300/month if you only get 4 months use of them. I could keep my boat at the Alameda Marina on San Francisco Bay - a really nice facility - for less than that! I mention Alameda Marina because several of my sailing club friends, who have moved up from Catalina 22's and 25's to "big boats" in the last few years, are keeping them there, so I could still enjoy my boating activities with friends from my club.

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2004 : 08:12:45

Larry, sounds like you and I are both having to wait longer than we anticipated. I hope when you get your trailer and boat fixed up it is everything you hope for. I hope I get my boat back by the end of the week.

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RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2004 : 13:01:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Kent at Catalina wasn't at work today and has been "gathering information" for the shop since Wednesday!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ben -- I suspect Kent may have been with the other company guys at the Rendezvous at Catalina Island, but he should be back at work now.

It was another fantastic event! Frank Butler's closing comments went roughly...

"Some guys get high on drugs. Others get high on booze. I get high gazing over the harbor and seeing over 100 of my boats."

Way to go, Frank!

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2004 : 15:46:58

You must have been correct Richard. Kent got back in touch with the shop today, so the shop has all the information it needs. Regrettably though, I won't be getting the boat back by the end of the week like I had hoped, maybe the end of next week. My fingers are crossed.

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