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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Centerboard OUCH!

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willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/11/2004 : 22:12:36

Today's wonderful sail was capped off by a major disappointment. When raising my centerboard the resistance in the line disappeared. When I went below to check on it I discovered the cable attached to the board had severed. Now my boat was launched for the first time in May of 2003 and stayed in the water until Sept of 03, was pulled, stored indoors and relaunched this May. I have been trying to think of an incident which could have caused this, board left down in the slip, grounding, etc, but honestly could come up with nothing. I have cared for this boat, my first brand new one ever, like I wanted it to last for my lifetime. I am the only one who sails her so nothing could have happened when I was not around. Is there a design flaw? Has anyone else experienced this? Has Catalina been responsive? Needless to saw with a brand new boat that I pretty much baby I am a bit upset to have this happen after what amounts to about six months of service. My guess is I will be paying to have it put on a sling next saturday instead of sailing and I have to admit to being pretty PO'd about the whole thing.
Frustrated in Delaware...

Edgy, WB#655
Dewey Beach, DE

Edited by - on

sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2004 : 01:16:49

Willy Ol' Boy welcome to the club! You are not alone. My cable broke two times on me(I have a 2002, my baby which is treated as such). I keep my boat in the water year round and kicked myself both times for not getting the wing (thought the extra few inches of draft in my skinny waters was a big consideration and reason for the water bal. purchase). To help ease your pain...Catalina will send you a new cable and pulley. You'll find the new cable is no longer metal. They switched to line after far too many cables broke on us unsuspecting sailors (the line is thinner than the old metal cable, thus the need for a new pulley). The first repair I had a mechanic do (the turning ball fell apart as well) he replaced the whole turning ball assembly along with a new metal cable. The second snap I did the fix with the new line and pulley. Easy enough although yup...had to have the boat lifted out of the water

both occurrences. Knock wood, no problems for the last 14 months. Good luck! I feel your pain......

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2004 : 01:19:31

Frustrated: After all I've gone through with my boat I would suggest that you first contact your dealer with all of the details and memorialize them in a letter, also take photos if they help explain your issues or damage. I would also send a copy to Frank Butler at Catalina. I'm sure he will contact you or wouldn't mind you contacting him and seeking his assistance in determining the problem and the solution...it is a slow process and you just have to hang in there, but Frank Butler did resolve all of the issues I had with my boat...if your dealer advocates for you as Jerry's dealer did with Pretty Penny II I'm sure it will be resolved as soon as possible.

Dan #727

Edited by - on

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2004 : 15:52:04

Willy this is one of those design flaws Catalina has designed into the 250WB.
I would do as Dan suggests. Frank & CO. I have found do get things resolved (use the phone to contact him). My cable has not yet broken and I raise and lower the CB very frequently. The only thing I have made sure right from the start was to mark the CB line so that I could always stop the CB before it is deployed all the way down or raised all the way up.

Edited by - on

sterngucker
Navigator

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USA
169 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2004 : 16:29:05

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Ray Seitz - mark the CB line so that I could always stop the CB before it is deployed all the way down or raised all the way up.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Excuse my ignorance, why do you need to do that?
Also, is it best to trailer with the centerboard pulled up off the bunk or resting on it when towing?

Edited by - sterngucker on 07/12/2004 16:39:46

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2004 : 21:38:57

My two cents.....IMHO marking the line is not necessary. I rested 80% of the weight of the board on the bunk when trailering.
As far as pictures and letters, I've been that route, it's necesassry for big sh*t, this is small sh*t. Suzie has it right. Call Catalina, ask for Kent Nelson (818-884-7700) He will send you the new and improved non-metallic version free of charge. As far as installation, hoisting works, but so does snorkeling. Put a long line around her belly, starting in front of the keel and work your way back, this will bring it closer to the surface. Feed the bitter end down, tie the tools to your wrist, and do the job. If that's too much find a person who scrubs bottoms with scuba gear....should be cheap.

Finally, and I am guilty and know the feeling, but have learned that Catalina is not perfect (nor is any other manufacturer) and their damage control is not always the best. Fact is that these are great boats, and the cable is (still) little sh*t.

Oscar
Catalina 42 # 76, Lady Kay
Catalina 250WB#618 Currently FOR SALE:
http:www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - Oscar on 07/12/2004 21:40:12

Ray Seitz
Captain

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USA
416 Posts

Response Posted - 07/13/2004 : 12:58:48

Charlie; I marked the line because there was some speculation by some long time owners, that to pull the CB all the way up put a bend in the cable, which over time would break one strand at a time until it let go. Made sense to me I am a believer. I did run all this by my dealer and he felt the bending was also causing the breaking. However, he would also rather sell a H****r 260 instead of a C250 mostly because of the cable problems. I really agree with Oscar the cable is not that big of a deal. I have it marked, also so I have some idea how much I have the CB raked back and how much water I am drawing.

I always take the stress (probably 80-90%) off the cable while trailering, by letting the CB rest on the bunks.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Excuse my ignorance, why do you need to do that?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> There is no ignorance in questions on this forum. I learned a lot from this forum before and after I bought my boat.

Edited by - Ray Seitz on 07/13/2004 14:10:12

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2004 : 09:24:37

Thanks everyone once again for tons of sage advise! I did call Catalina and have found out that my free upgrade/repair kit is waiting for me at home! (I am on the road for business). Oscar I hadn't thought about snorkeling to do this and that sounds less expensive than using the lift. I will probably let the number of jellyfish in the bay Saturday be the determining factor on which route to take.
THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!!

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2004 : 11:13:45

Willy,
Last summer I went underneath my C-250 with the keel down to take a look at the cable and its routing and attachment. I really had trouble doing this without some sort of light also. This was a bright sunny day in pretty clear water. Just my two cents worth for your consideration..."Bear"

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2004 : 21:14:30

Just wanted to let everyone know how easy this task was once I got the boat on the lift. The toughest part was threading the new line from the foremost block under the boat through the hose into the cabin. I finally got it done by threading the old cable down with a string taped to it, and then taping the new line to the string and pulling it up. A quick bowline later I sailed away!
The wildest thing was the size of the sponge-like growth on my knotmeter. It was as big as my fist...no wonder it wasn't spinning!

Edited by - on

kinsale
Deckhand

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5 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2004 : 07:44:29

Hi everyone,

I'm posting to this topic, hoping to add my experience with this problem. I am also starting a new topic, so that others will see this more readily.

I have already posted my boat, the Kinsale, up for sale in this forum. The Centerboard issue was one of the deciding factors for me.
Four seasons, four cable snaps later. This past season, the board came right out with the entire housing. I retrieved the board from the bay at low tide, the housing unit was gone.

To begin with, Catalina never returned my call when I complained earlier this year when for the third time, the cable snapped. My local Catalina dealer, (using a fictitious name) Cape Cod Water Boats, one of the only dealers for C250's in my area, also would not return any of my phone calls this year. This is absolutely unacceptable. I bought this boat at full retail price even though it was one years old, and a leftover. The dealer again blew me off this past month when I called to ask them to order a replacement housing.

I want to point out to all of you that I've gone through several types of replacement lines, the last was a heavy duty cable. Nothing lasted. The system is defective. Catalina, by the way, never provided me with a "free upgrade kit". I am assuming this was some poly line and maybe a new pully system. What I am finding out, only through the work of my boat yard (more than willing to rape, er, help) is that, Catalina does not sell replacement housings for this boat. They now recommend a retro-fit Wing Keel! And only for $1,750! What a steal! I'm sure the labor will cost another $2,000.

So hey guys, as long as you are willing to empty your bank account into Catalina corporation, there is hope.

I'm a little disgusted. No information from Catalina, yet, they basically consider this boat a recall. No explanation about what to do with the trailer, if you can still use it with the wing keel. I hope that this message does not come across as sarcastic as it seems. I really tried to tone that down but you see, a person only has so much patience.

FYI, I'm going after these guys. Catalina and the dealer. No more Mr. Nice Guy.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2004 : 08:27:23

For the first time in three years of sailing I grounded the centerboard last Saturday. It was a sandy bottom and uncharted.
It was a sacary moment when I looked down into the water with my Raybans. Lucky there was only about a five knot wind and I gently raised the center board and moved on with the iron genny. When lowering the centerboard I never let it free fall and always pull it back up about a foot when sailing. When I raise it at the slip I am probably about a foot from it going into the centerboard cavity. I have to raise it when coming in because of a decrease in the lake level this time of year. Brandy comes out for the winter on the 25th
and for some much needed cleaning, inspection and a few upgrades. 44
this morning in upstate N.Y.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2004 : 11:02:40

Carl,

I'm wondering what "housing" your refer to? Do you mean the two bronze blocks that hold the axle? Do you mean some amount of fiberglass structure that surrounds the center board?

We've never had a poster outline a similar problem and I'm confused as to what your describing.

If the bolts for some reason worked out and the board and the bearing blocks were lost, I'd be quite surprized if the blocks weren't available from Catalina.

I'm also a bit confused by your "For Sale" post which says "It is in very nice shape" and here you post that the boat is in limbo because Catalina says that it can only be fitted with a replacement wing keel which will leave your trailer useless.

All this has me wondering if there is a communication problem between you and Catalina. If Catalina were hearing you describe a loss of "centerboard housing", then they might jump to the conclusion that your talking about a C25 which might explain the reccomendation to modify to a wing keel.

Are you sure that your using the word "housing" to properly identify your problem which I have interpreted to possibly mean that you lost the bronze support blocks for the centerboard pin?

On the other hand, they may be saying that the only way to totally eliminate the cable failures would be to convert it to a wing keel. The cable failure problem in my opinion can be dealt with. It could very well be that the loose mounting bolts were doing in the cables.

When the center board is raised full up... the cable connection to the board is quite near the trunk turning block. If the board is not shimmed properly to reduce motion, the motion will work the cable back and forth until it fails. This is why Ray leaves his board a few inches down, so that the angle of that "working" is not acute.

Also, to ground a board can pinch the cable between the board and the sheave edge which is like a knife and the cable will be cut. Several of us have experienced this.

Ray is right... DO NOT raise the board fully up and leave it to suffer rocking motion in a slip or on a mooring, especially if the board is not shimmed well at the axle mounting pin. Yes, I know, it does solve the clunking while at anchor...take yer pick.... clunking, shim the axle well or replace the cable often.

Now a few comments about replacing the cable. Oscar has it right on several counts, its not too hard of a job to do in the water. I'm in my late 50's and can do it without much difficulty. His rope sling to hand oneself into place to feed the cables and his tool teathering is exactly how I do it. One additioal point that he doesn't make is that I've found it extremely helpful to wrap legs around the board like a kid climbing a tree to hold position for making the board connection.

I've done this in the clear waters of the Great Lakes wearing a wet suit because of the cold water and fighting the bouyance of the wet suit and in the much harder to see waters but much warmer of a Texas lake. Too much bouyancy is harder to deal with then the lack of visibility.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 09/14/2004 12:04:23

sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2004 : 12:13:39

Arlyn asked some good questions, I anxiously hope to hear your response.
I'm posting a picture of my 3rd cable which Catalina sent me free (the upgrade kit also came with a new pulley/ block that replaces the the small one that hooks to berth ceiling, and a new clevis and pin used to connect to CB.

As you can see it is a high strength line, non- coated or metalic. Figured I'd post this info to update anyone who has not experienced a break yet. Guess I'm lucky. Masthead, my 250 dealer in St. Pete, has always had my back.

Edited by - on

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