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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Edson Steering & Weather Helm

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Jim Mc
1st Mate

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USA
43 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/03/2004 : 12:01:46

Even though I have read most of the posts on weather helm, as a novice I am still not sure what to expect. Our boat is a 2000WK (501), with 2 batteries and 250 # of sand in the v-berth storage area. I have adjusted the Edson pull-pull cable system so that at rest there is about one inch of wheel rotation in each direction prior to any rudder movement. Not sure of our rudder vintage. When sailing on a close reach at 15 deg. of heel the wheel is turned nearly 90 deg. to maintain a heading. At 20 deg. heel the wheel is turned about 160 deg. depending on wind gusts. It requires a lot of pressure on wheel to keep on a heading. Is this normal or should I remove more play from system ? Would a steering cable upgrade resolve both the play and pressure issues ? Has anyone tried the after market rudder mentioned in recent posts ? Any advice or comments would be appreciated.

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D Wrate
1st Mate

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38 Posts

Response Posted - 08/03/2004 : 13:05:30

Jim, I don't have a Catalina or wheel steering for that matter but a couple of questions. When you have 90 degrees of wheel turn, how much rudder angle change does that produce? Any more than 15 degrees or so to leeward is too much for the given course and something in the sail set needs to be changed to reduce the amount of weather helm.

From you post I think that the amount of play may be ok but that you have an excess of weather helm.

Again just my opinion as I have never set foot on a Cat 250...

David

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mday
Navigator

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197 Posts

Response Posted - 08/04/2004 : 00:31:18

Jim,

Sounds to me like you're overpowered and need to flatten out a bit. In conditions you mention, I usually roll in the jib a bit and ease the main sheet. The WK also has a traveler that can ease the main too. If all that doesn't reduce the struggle with the helm, it's time to reef. With some practice, you'll find that even by reducing sail you'll achieve optimum power still be flying along in a good wind.

Max

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2004 : 07:17:46

Jim,

Max has it right, probably over powered. The 250 has a big engine for its modest keel and needs considerable throttle control.

Observe the degreee of rudder stall, if ears are good this can be done by ear with careful attention to the sound it makes. If its draging in the water with more than 4-5 degrees of offset then sails are out of trim or too much sail is on.

If helm torque is too great, I'm guessing the rudder may be the 2nd which isnt balanced though the 2nd has a lot of grip and isn't given to stalling easily. Excess torque can also be a problem of the flexible Edson cables and to a great extent is the result of the poor steering ratio between the wheel and rudder. The Edson system has about a half turn of wheel movement each way whereas the system I've designed has slightly more than one turn each way and offers much improved helm control with no play or drag.

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Tony Partain
1st Mate

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USA
93 Posts

Response Posted - 08/06/2004 : 10:33:24

Jim
You may want to check your mast rake. this too can have an effect on weather helm.

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Jim Mc
1st Mate

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USA
43 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2004 : 00:39:15

Thanks for the advice and comments. I am spending the next three days sailing at Lake Tahoe so I will have a chance to try them out

Jim

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reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2004 : 18:53:04

Jim,
I've got WK #499, it's our first season with the boat and I too was surprised at the muscle needed to keep a heading in a good breeze. Reefing experiments have borne out what the others above have said -- reducing the jib is the simplest way to reduce weather helm. This past week we sailed in steady winds of 18, gusting to the low 20s; not storm conditions by any means but the sort of winds that have prompted us in the past to reef the main. This time we left the main alone and took in 1/3 to 1/2 of the jib. Kept the boat fairly level, kept the speed up, kept the pointing ability -- and kept the Edson steady with two fingers on the wheel.

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2004 : 19:03:59

Wow Reuben! You can furl 1/3 to 1/2 of your jib and still use it? Do you have a foam luff? If I take one turn on my furler the jib loses its shape and just flaps in the breeze.

I'd love to be able to reduce the amount of headsail when the wind gets stiff. Last weekend in a 20 kt wind I had to just furl it and sail on the reefed main. Wonder what I'm doing wrong . . .

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reuben
Navigator

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USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2004 : 11:41:39

Bubba,
I have the 135 jib and can maintain shape & effectiveness while taking in quite a lot of sail. This is the first furler I've ever owned -- nothing special, just the standard CDI unit common on late-model Catalinas -- and it works great. Are you moving the cars on your jib travelers to compensate for furling?

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Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2004 : 21:21:03

Reuben, I move the cars forward to a point. If I move them all the way forward, the sheets have to go around the shrouds. I've been leading the sheets outside the rigging. Problem is when the winds are strong enough to partially furl, I don't feel like climbing around the foredeck to re-route the jib sheets inside the shrouds. So, I'm not using the foreward-most positions on the track. I guess the other difference is that I have a 110 jib (tall rig), so I'm starting with a smaller jib than you have.

Maybe I'll try rigging the sheets inside the shrouds before shoving off on a windy day.

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mmodine
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 00:04:50

If you are experiencing such massive rudder adjustment for such modest amounts of heel I think you need to look to your rig.

Our boat sails best between 15 and 20 degrees of heel and most times will steer itself with about 20 to 30 degrees on the rudder. It heads up in the puffs and falls off by itself.

Refer to the tech tip articals by Bill Holcomb on this website and make sure your lee shrouds don't go loose when close hauled.

Enjoy.

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.