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Catalina 25 Specific Forum

An embarrassment???

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oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/14/2004 : 23:23:58

I just read the Sail Magazine article about the east and west coast Catalina factories and once again, although the 22 and 27 are given a nod; as in the official company history, no mention is made of the thousands of Catalina 25s!

Thousands built and never a mention; our boats must be a real embarrassment to Frank.

Mark;thread-killer extraordinaire, Silver Girl, '83, tall rig/Mk. V, lead fin keel #3744

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 09:58:14

Shameful... However, the C-22 became an icon among racers as well as beginning cruisers, and the C-27 became an icon as the most affordable true keelboat out there. During its run, many viewed the C-25 as an over-stretched 22, a little too big and heavy for trailer sailing and a little short on beam as well as headroom for an in-water cruiser. A number of 26-footers (Pearson, Paceship, etc.) were better for cruising, and 23-footers were better for trailering. The C-25 was marginally trailerable and had the most size for the dollar. I once thought most of those things.

People like Derek, Steve and others here have proven it can sail, but its size hurts it as a racing class like the C-22 or even J-24, as shown by the attendance at our Nationals. (Why wasn't TSU there? Rhetorical question.)

I like mine a lot, but we bought it in large part because its narrow beam made it the biggest cruiser we could fit into a slip in our town boat club. There are three others there, bought for the same reason. We looked very hard at the C-250 WK (the beamiest possible candidate) and decided the 25 worked better in our budget. I lurked and asked questions on the old version of this site (on Trailer Sailor) for over a year, and was impressed by the support from the association, Catalina, and Catalina Direct.

We can brag about the numbers, but so can McGreggor. The C-25 is a nice boat that is just a little too.... too.......

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/15/2004 09:59:51

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 10:54:58

Dave, I suppose you're right but when a design sells over 6000 boats I would think it deserves some recognition from the factory, especially when success in the industry is measured by the hundreds.

When I bought my boat back in '83 I was deciding against the Hunter 25 and Seidleman 25. Where are they now? I wouldn't be surprised if almost all of them are "gone". The C 25 isn't only still around, but even hull # 1 is still on the water, and the activity of the association speaks for itself.

The C 25 is built very well for the use it's intended for, holds up to time very well, and sails well. As for its being an in "betweener" so far as its size goes, over 6000 owners (and many, many more actual buyers considering resales) certainly believe that it does fill its niche as a pocket cruiser.

You're certainly right about its trailorablity though; I'd love for Silver Girl to attend the Nationals but there's simply no way for me to get her there.

How many discontinued vessels of it's class still have owners installing upgrades and mods that often equal or surpass the dollar value of the boats themselves and such an active National Association? By these measures alone, I believe that the Catalina 25 qualifies as a "classic".

Is the the Catalina 25 really sort of like the Macdonalds Hamburger:"Billions Served".......but that's all that can be said about it???

By the way, the picture I temporarily inserted into my signiture line is a picture of a picture of Silver Girl taken back in 1985 showing my original factory mainsail, Evinrude Yachtwin outboard, and my original ex wife who still bugs me to take her sailing.

It's my first attempt ever to post a picture and I'm confused as to why it came up so damn big.

Edited by - oldsalt on 08/15/2004 11:14:44

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 11:19:30

Well, it may be a bit big for conversing on long threads, but I like it! That boat has really nice lines--what is it??

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 12:14:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldsalt
 It's my first attempt ever to post a picture and I'm confused as to why it came up so damn big.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Mark:

Your picture is big because it's big! Properties show it at 480x321 pixels. It's possible that the software you're viewing it with on your local PC is shrinking it down when you view it, so you "thought" it was small. Here's a smaller version of it. IF you want it, download it to your PC then upload it to your ISP (I think you're using shutterfly). Hope that helps.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 16:18:42

Mark,

Nice boat....flashy head sail. I have a 1988 tall rig #5801. It also has the Evinrude Yacht Twin 9.9? I still have it but would like to switch to a 4-stroke. Anyway, is this a coincidence or was this a standard engine for the Mark V boats? Or........ where did you purchase originally? Perhaps we had the same dealer. I bought mine new at Dukow's Marine in Milwaukee.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 17:45:03

or this one

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 17:55:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oldsalt
 ...By the way, the picture I temporarily inserted into my signature line is a picture of a picture of Silver Girl taken back in 1985 showing my original factory mainsail, Evinrude Yachtwin outboard, and my original ex wife who still bugs me to take her sailing.

It's my first attempt ever to post a picture and I'm confused as to why it came up so damn big.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Mark, go back into your signature and change the third to last digit of the photo address, which is a 6, to a 0 (zero). This will give you a picture this size.

Edited by - dlucier on 08/15/2004 17:56:25

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 19:43:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 Mark,

Nice boat....flashy head sail. I have a 1988 tall rig #5801. It also has the Evinrude Yacht Twin 9.9? I still have it but would like to switch to a 4-stroke. Anyway, is this a coincidence or was this a standard engine for the Mark V boats? Or........ where did you purchase originally? Perhaps we had the same dealer. I bought mine new at Dukow's Marine in Milwaukee.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks Al, I bought her new at Seaford Marine in Long Island and she originally came with the 9.9 Evinrude Yachtwin but two years ago I bought a 1996 Johnson Sailmaster new leftover simply because I thought the Yachtwin was getting long in the tooth and I wanted to stick with a 2 stroke while they were still available.

The headsail is a 3.5 ounce, dacron, vertical cut, hank on 150 which I had custom made at D&D Sailmakers; an excellent local loft which unfortunately is no longer in business. It's still in great shape since I have a few other gennys and I rotate their use. That sail is really well constructed. And fast.

And thanks to all for their help in shrinking my signiture line photo.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 20:45:20

Mark: I like the one Frank (fhopper) came up with--a nice view of the boat and most of the sail in a compact signature pic.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 20:55:30

Dave, I like that one too but I'm sorry to say I'm having trouble getting it onto Shutterfly. Meanwhile I'm still fiddling around. I know less about the internet than I'd like to. I'm still trying to get Franks picture up. If anyone can help me out I'd appreciate it.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 21:10:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 or this one

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just use this URL, I will leave it up, its not going anywhere.

http://members.cox.net/marthahopper/catalina%2025/Silver%20girl.jpg

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 22:28:19

Thanks for your help Frank. It took me the better part of an hour but it's all good now.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/15/2004 : 23:22:31

Of course now I can put any picture there I want just to mess with you. Hmm a Venture 17 maybe?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2004 : 14:39:48

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Mac 26X/M--viewed from the stern quarter... or maybe a Freightliner...

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2004 : 16:28:44

I think I know why there is a dirth of info on the 25s from Catalina. They are trying to finalize the exact hull numbers for the Mark Series changes so when they republish the info on our boats it will reflect the appropriate Mark Series designations.

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2004 : 18:20:16

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My God; I'm at your mercy.......

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oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2004 : 18:23:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 I think I know why there is a dirth of info on the 25s from Catalina. They are trying to finalize the exact hull numbers for the Mark Series changes so when they republish the info on our boats it will reflect the appropriate Mark Series designations.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I knew there had to be a rational reason.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2004 : 18:46:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">They are trying to finalize the exact hull numbers for the Mark Series changes <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm sure that is at the very top of their priority list!

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 08/16/2004 : 23:24:25

ok first, trailering: I regularly trailer Nin Bimash II 1000 to 1500 miles per year. this spring we did 1000 miles in a day and a half in order to get to minnesota to launch in lake superior for the Isle Royal cruise. The boat tows very well. It did well with the ford f250 and even better with the GMC siera. The boat is easy to launch and retrieve.

Sailing: If most of these C25s are still in service (mine #153)there must be something about the way they sail. mine sails like a dream, way better than my C22. the set up is great, even my 10 year old can skipper dock to dock. I have sailed comperable oday 25's and seidlemans, and there is no comparison. the C27 while giving a bit more headroom doesn't offer much more in terms of space below.
While a slightly larger boat cannot be trailered without special permits, requires marina lift equip to launch and must be stored at a price. The C25 can be moved and stored by the owner and while there may be a trade off here and there, on my budget if I had to pay someone to move and store my boat it would be too expensive for me.
The C25 section in mainsheet is always full and shows a very active group of sailors. If it helps, I'll promise to go to the next big fleet event if held within 1500 miles. I need to meet you guys face to face anyway.

perhaps we can shake this lack of recognition by continuing to write about and celebrate our marvelous vessels. and really who cares if Sail mentions us, they rarely write about small boats anyway.

Edited by - John V. on 08/16/2004 23:38:20

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 08/18/2004 : 19:16:10

I prefer to think that any old hack can write about a 22' or a 27' but Sail mag couldn't find a good enough writer to capture the true essence and character of such a fine vessel as the Catalina 25, so they didn't even try. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Steve

Edited by - on

Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2004 : 20:26:49

Mark,
We just got back the day before yesterday from the North Channel area of Georgian Bay on Lake Huron. It was a great 6 week trip. We went up and down the mountains in Pa at 60 MPH with no problems and launched the boat and loaded it at Tobermory on the Bruce Peninsula with out any excitment as well. Regular ramp launch and our tow vehicle is a 3/4 ton 97 GMC pickup with a 5.7 gas engine 2 wheel drive. I have modified the brakes on our trailer to use 4 wheel disc brakes with a standard Dico surge controller/ coupler with a spring to stop the brakes from actuating until the truck is pushing back with about 2 to 300 lbs force. This prevents continuous brake application when going down long hills.
In any case the trip was great and living on the boat for a long time works well for us. Some where along the line we were on a Catalina 27 and found that the vee berth is smaller than our 25's.
I have made some big changes in our boat that make it a better live aboard.
Also for what its worth it is a rare boat of any size that out sails us. Even the 40 foot boats mostly only gain a half mile in 10 miles. We sail off and on the anchor from all of the harbors ( no engine for days at a time) Stats for this trip 560 nautical miles sailed 50 to 60 motored on 6 gallons of gas for 620 total. Dave

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2004 : 21:56:42

Dave, it sounds like you've had a fabulous sailing experience and you certainly do know how to get the most out your vessel. You've demonstrated that there's still a lot of life in these old girls.

Edited by - on

Eric Dove
1st Mate

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37 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 15:13:09

I think if there IS a trailerability problem or a perceived one at least, it's only because the masts are just a bit too big to muscle up and Catalina never built in any real mast-raising system. I use the 2X4 a frame technique which I saw on this website. I don't trailer a lot, so I don't have repitition on my side and it STILL only takes an hour or so to rig or de-rig the boat...peice of cake, particularly with a couple hands. Mine is a SK and I trailer her behind a Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 (6500 lb. tow capacity) and she does great. 3 buddies and I just trailered about 3 hours up to Lake Erie for a killer weekend.

In short, I think the 25 is capable of setting-up and trailering beautifully, but I also put a lot of effort, trial and error, and research into figuring out an efficient way of doing it. I think a lot of people aren't willing to do that. For instance (correct me if I'm wrong), don't the 250's have built-in metal stabilizers and a system for mast-raising straight out of the factory? Good idea...too bad they didn't do it on the 25.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 21:34:20

Eric: I'm glad you're having good experiences towing your 25, but I have to question the Grand Cherokee. You are almost certainly well over the towing limit unless you have a carbon fiber trailer. The GC's wheelbase is quite short for that load, and it's pretty light, especially for going at highway speeds. You probably have the tongue weight just right, but even then, you've got something like 7000# pushing about 4500# (compared to 6000# and two more feet of wheelbase on a Suburban). (See http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6925&SearchTerms=trailer,weight and http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7032&SearchTerms=trailer,weight among others on the subject.) I've towed much less with a Grand Cherokee and felt a tiny bit unstable when braking on the highway. Be very careful!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/23/2004 21:55:32

ssteakley
Captain

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USA
467 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 23:44:44

I have just 2 things to say here;
First the C25 is a classic. It has the potental to cruise well and race the socks off most other 25's and larger boats...just ask Derek...I have seen it for myself. The C250 is the best cruiser in it's clsss as far as I am concered and it can really get agter it if you are into racing...it is just more tender than the C25 and you have to adjust accordingly. I will never forget where I started with my C250 and Derek as my mentor. As a new owner of a 86 C30 the tradition continues. This boat is a real cruiser racer, with the right equipment you can do both and with excellant results,
Steve

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