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Does anyone else drag their motor?

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/19/2004 : 07:29:15

Hi All,

I'm getting a little frustrated with my motor and/or motor mount. I'm not sure where the problem lies, perhaps with the motor mount not having enough travel. But with my motor tilted all the way up and with the motor mount raised, I still drag the motor, quite a bit in fact, when on a port tack under decent wind (10 mph+)

I've noticed on other boats in my club (not C25's unfortunately) that they have their kicker sticking out off the transom almost vertically. Is this just the way the C25 and it's motor mount were designed. The picture below shows my motor tilted up and the motor mount raised. In this picture there was probably less than 5 mph of wind, I'm on a starboard tack, and I'm still almost dragging a little.

Thanks Ya'll!

Ben
Beneteau 361
Viking Kitty
Columbus, Ohio

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 07:42:35

From the picture, your stern "looks" a little low in the water. What sort of engine do you have and do you store a lot of gear in your cockpit locker? Perhaps all you need is some weight redistribution.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 08:31:34

The engine is an 86 or 87 Johnson Sailmaster. I do keep a lot of stuff in the locker, but not heavy stuff. Only sails, life jackets, fenders, extra robe, a bucket and a hand bildge pump. If weight distribution is the problem, I'm afraid I'm going to have to live with it. The wife (and I too for that matter) like having a neat and tidy cabin.

Using our v-berth for storage would not fly.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 08:33:57

With the stock motor mount up and my outboard not tilted, the skeg just touches the water's surface. When I tilt the outboard, it clears the water a fair amount.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 09:17:38

Hi Ben,

My outboard is a Mercury, very similar to Don's, but older. When I first got my boat, my o/b would barely clear the water with the motor mount in the up position (just as Don wrote).

I didn't know that the o/b had a tilt function until a repairman showed it to me

. I don't know how a Sailmaster is made, but the Mercury has a little lever near where the o/b attaches to the mount ... you simply pull the o/b forward and then engage the lever, the lever holds the engine up and out of the water (as in Don's photo).

'Hope that helps ... good luck!

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 09:36:48

Hi Ben,

Are you sure that the motor won't tilt up higher? When I tilt my Mariner up, it sits pretty much horizontal. Almost as if it were sitting on the dock.

You might have to add some sort of extension to move the top of the engine away from the transom so that it tilts up all the way.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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1234 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 10:01:45

Hi Bill & all,

My engine has a pin that goes into one of either five or six holes where the engine pivots. When I'm running my engine I have the pin in the lowest hole, with the motor mount down. When I'm sailing I flip a lever on the starboard side of the engine and tilt the engine up. I remove the pin and put it in the uppper-most hole, then I lower the engine back onto the pin. While it is entirely possible, I don't see how I could be screwing up what appears to be a very simple operation.

I like the way Don's engine tilts up. That's how I'd like mine to be.

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 10:31:45

Hi Ben,

Your engine looks like an extra long shaft. If I'm right, maybe that's why it drags. HUH?

I hope the wing installation went well.

Go Bucks!

Paul

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 10:48:18

Hi Paul, I suppose it might be an extra long shaft, I've never measured it. The second wing installation went great! I'm a very happy camper with the boat, she's clean, beautiful, and she seems to be a bit faster even. We've already been out on her many, many times and we're loving every minute of it.

Go Bucks!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 10:56:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ben
 My engine has a pin that goes into one of either five or six holes where the engine pivots. When I'm running my engine I have the pin in the lowest hole, with the motor mount down. When I'm sailing I flip a lever on the starboard side of the engine and tilt the engine up. I remove the pin and put it in the uppper-most hole, then I lower the engine back onto the pin. While it is entirely possible, I don't see how I could be screwing up what appears to be a very simple operation...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ben,

It's been awhile since I used a Johnson 9.9, but you shouldn't have to move the trim pin when tilting your motor. You should just flip the tilt lever and then tilt the motor until it latches. When you want to go back down, flip the lever and then pull and drop the outboard.

It sounds like you are not actually tilting the outboard, but simply changing the trim angle with the pin, which doesn't lift the lower unit high enough.

Edited by - dlucier on 08/19/2004 11:00:12

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 11:05:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">the way the C25 and it's motor mount were designed<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What kind of motor mount do you have? It seems several makes were installed on C25's and some newer models are also available -- each with varying amounts of lift. Further, the location on the transom where the mount is bolted seems not to be consistant from boat to boat, which also affects the relative height of the motor, whether tilted or not.

Edited by - RichardG on 08/19/2004 11:08:47

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 11:23:48

Hi Ben,

I also have an extra long shaft '93 Johnson mounted as you do and it also drags on port tack. When I replaced the stock mount I lowered it as far as possible, wanting the prop at maximum depth, and as a result it cost my not getting those envious horizontal motors that some have.

I believe Bill has it right when he suggests moving the mount away from the transom in order to get the prop out of the water. When trying to tilt fully my motor stops when the power head contacts the transom. If it were further from the transom it would tilt more.

Question is is it worth the effort to remove the motor and mount and fashion something to project the motor further from the transom to correct a sometime problem? My hangup with this is finding someone willing to crawl to the transom's interior and hold a wrench while I undo the fasteners from the outside, because ain't no way I'll crawl back there. Instant VERTIGO trip for me and not worth the benefit.

Glad to hear that your wing finally was done right.

Val on Calista # 3936 sWING
Patchogue, N.Y.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 12:10:07

Ben: I agree with Don (again?!)--it sounds like you aren't using the actual tilt stops on your motor. The pin you're talking about is for trimming the engine to adjust the thrust angle. The tilt positions are determined by a mechanism just below the powerhead. When you tilt it, there should be several "stops" where it will hold, and from which you must use a release lever that allows you to lower the engine. Those tilt positions should be considerably higher than what you get with the outermost position of the trim pin. How are you holding the engine as you move the pin? If the engine isn't latching in the tilt positions, that could be due to an improper setting of the release lever (I don't have a Johnson), a broken spring, or some other fault in the mechanism. The tilting process is supposed to be much easier than moving that pin.

Edited by - on

kenobie51
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 12:34:55

Ben,
I zoomed your picture way up so I could see you motor mount. It looks like your mount is located much lower on the transom than usual. When the motor is down, and the mount is in the lowered position, I would guess your motors power head is just above the water!! Is that the case? It may have been done in an attempt to get the prop deeper, but you risk getting water in the cylinders by back flow up the exhaust.

Larry Knobel - 1980 C-25 #1657 SK-Dinette-8HP Tohatsu
Cayuga Lake, NY

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 13:02:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Ben: I agree with Don (again?!)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That just doesn't sound right!?

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 13:27:14

Hi Don & RichardG,

Actually Don, I do both. I move the trim pin to the highest location and I tilt the motor up by flipping a lever. This takes the engine out of the water as much as possible, as far as I can tell.

I dont' know what kind of motor mount I have. It's not like any other C25 mount I've seen. I'll try to take a picture of it next time I'm at the boat.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 13:37:11

Ben,

My 88 9.9 Evinrude long shaft was mounted on the wrong (port) side of the boat by the dealer. At that time the mount seemed to be as low on the transom as yours and it dragged on starboard tack. When I had the mount switched to the starboard side, I had it raised about five inches. Now only about 2" of the prop blade drags in the verticle position and I have not had a problem in the near horizontal position unless on extreem healing angles. It looks to me like your motor doesn't raise to the horizontal as much as mine though. If it really bothers you, I would consider raising your mount on the transom.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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1234 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 13:38:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Ben: it sounds like you aren't using the actual tilt stops on your motor. The pin you're talking about is for trimming the engine to adjust the thrust angle. The tilt positions are determined by a mechanism just below the powerhead. When you tilt it, there should be several "stops" where it will hold, and from which you must use a release lever that allows you to lower the engine. Those tilt positions should be considerably higher than what you get with the outermost position of the trim pin.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Dave, I do have a lever that I use to tilt the engine, but it only seems to have two positions: up & down.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How are you holding the engine as you move the pin?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I hold the engine with shear brute force. It's not fun, but when I feel strong it works out okay. I just always focus on the pin in my hand. I've lost many things to the fishes.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I would guess your motors power head is just above the water!! Is that the case? It may have been done in an attempt to get the prop deeper, but you risk getting water in the cylinders by back flow up the exhaust.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Kenobie, assuming the power head is the big part of the engine on top, then the only time I worry about swamping the engine is a full power. The stern of the boat really drops a bit, but so far I've not had a problem. I do run the engine full out each time I'm on the boat, because the engine seems to carbon-up when I idle for too long. So I gun the engine for a while until the blue smoke goes away. Seems to run better thereafter.

Edited by - on

familysailor
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 14:01:37

Hi Ben,

It looks like you and I have the same motor and the same problem. My Evinrude 9.9 has a bar that flips down against the the pin in the mount. It is an up or down arrangement and does not raise the motor very far from vertical. I have considered either building a longer bar, or having an extension welded onto the existing bar to get the motor to tilt farther. I will let you know what I do and how it works out, though it may not be for a few months.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 15:20:52

Thanks Russ. I was kind of hoping there would be an easy solution to this problem, or that this would be yet another one of those things where I was simply missing some part of the process. I look forward to hearing about your solution. Good luck with it.

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atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 15:38:48

Hi all.
The Johnson/Erude in question here has 2 tilt settings . One is for shallow water running(on an sailboat???)In this position the bar everyone is talking about comes out and blocks the shaft.
The second position is the tilted position and is a little less obvious.There are sliders on both sides of the mount and a small detent on the starboard slider that holds the motor fully up. It it is not used it will rust up and not work. It engaged properly the engine will not travel any further up from the tilted position. Just something to check.

Tom.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 20:35:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by atgep
 The Johnson/Erude in question here has 2 tilt settings . One is for shallow water running(on an sailboat???)In this position the bar everyone is talking about comes out and blocks the shaft.
The second position is the tilted position and is a little less obvious.There are sliders on both sides of the mount and a small detent on the starboard slider that holds the motor fully up. It it is not used it will rust up and not work. It engaged properly the engine will not travel any further up from the tilted position. Just something to check.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That's basically what I was talking about--the shallow water bar is similar to what I had on a little Yamaha. Ben, I really think something is preventing the tilt mechanism from holding the engine up. If you pull it all the way up, it should stay there until you release release it and give it another little pull. The other possibility is that the transom or rail is preventing you from tilting it far enough to reach the detent. If so, then you can solve that by blocking the bracket away from the transom. Starboard is great for that.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 08/19/2004 20:37:27

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 08/19/2004 : 22:16:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">There are sliders on both sides of the mount and a small detent on the starboard slider that holds the motor fully up. It it is not used it will rust up and not work. It engaged properly the engine will not travel any further up from the tilted position. Just something to check. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'll take a closer look at the engine tomorrow, but I really don't see how I could have missed anything. I'll let ya'll know what I find, and if I can remember, I'll take some close up pictures.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
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Response Posted - 08/20/2004 : 07:55:59

HELLO!? Ben, Don, we have done this thread recently. Look at my Garelick 71091 and my Johnson 9.9 XLS. This is what is needed to do what you want.

[url="http://members.cox.net/elizabethhopper/Catalina%2025/gaerlick.jpg"]Motor tilted in down position[/url]

[url="http://homepage.mac.com/fhopper/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2004-07-18%2010.39.46%20-0700/July%2022%20021.jpg"]Tilted up[/url]

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Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2004 : 11:27:54

THAT'S WHAT I NEED! Sorry, didn't mean to shout. Great pics Frank. I know motor mounts have been talked about ad-nauseum, but I have never been able to make sense as to which one would be best for my needs. Can you tell me again what kind of mount you have? That looks like a great off-season project.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/20/2004 : 12:45:53

Take a look at http://www.garelick.com/# under Marine Products, the Outboard icon, 4-stroke brackets, the 71091. You might have to sit on it to get it down--it might pop itself up with your little Johnson.

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