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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Rolling Furling Review

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Esteban
Navigator

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139 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/23/2004 : 12:09:26

Ladies, Gents et others,

Need some feedback or reviews on a roller furling system made by Schaefer Marine. Seriously considering their Snapfurl CF-700 and wanted some feedback from the experts. This is for a Catalina 25 tall rig.

Looking at going through Catalina Direct for both the furler and the sail. Thoughts?

Esteban

Esteban Diaz
Tally Ho!

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 17:11:59

I'll be adding roller furing next year and would like the same feedback. I leaning toward either CDI w/upgraded head or Profurl.

Al
GALLIVANT#5801

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 21:24:00

If it isn't Harken it's crap!

But the Schaefer is the second best.

Edited by - on

nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 21:47:44

Frank....if you bought a CDI instead of a Harken you wouldn't have to eat PBJ at those raft-ups!!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2004 : 21:56:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by nate
 Frank....if you bought a CDI instead of a Harken you wouldn't have to eat PBJ at those raft-ups!!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

SJ
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2004 : 13:07:51

I had purchased the Schaffer for the old C25 about 5 years ago. At that time, the system was not suited for that large of a boat. The salesman said it would work, so I acted like a Lemming and bought it. It seemed to be working fine, but to my dismay, the forces created from such a large headsail was allowing the PVC track to bind-up against the SS headstay. Well, I'm sure you can guess what happen after a whole lot of binding and twisting...."SNAP" The headstay parted and luckily I was on the mooring with the spin haylard lead forward...Rig stayed put, but needed to spend some boat units for a new headstay. The new C25 has a harken system that I love. Three weeks ago while sailing over to American YC on Long Island Sound thw wind piped up to 25+. I was able to reduce sail quite easily with the Harken, not sure if I could have done that with any other system. Definately not with the older Schaffer PVC unit....Check the specs and make sure that this new version is suited to the size of your sails...

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2004 : 13:38:20

SJ,

I think you ran afoul of the dreaded "UV damage" gremlin. PVC & sun are not good friends, especially when stressed. At least you were able to avoid a dismasting.

Edited by - on

cfoucht
Deckhand

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USA
19 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 00:10:52

SJ,
Was the Schaefer unit that failed a Snapfurl CF-500? Catalina Direct had that unit listed for the Catalina 25 a few years ago before the CF-700 was introduced.

Carl Foucht
C25 SR/FK #5933

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 07:15:07

I have a Schaeffer CF-700 for my tall rig which I purchased through Catalina Direct. I bought the sail through Catalina direct from Ullman.
The furler is a really nice unit, except for the plastic sail track, (if that's what you call it) It tends to twist if you want to reef your sail. Both the schaeffer and profurl reps discouraged me from buying an aluminum based furler for a trailer sailer. I guesse if we trailer, we are stuck with plastic.
The sail was cut so long that the furler has to sit all the way down on the headstay so that the drum is right on the stem fitting, and that interferes with the rope and chain of the anchor. I talked to Gary Swenson with Ullman and he says he can cut down the sail if I send it to him. I'll bet shipping costs will be high when I get around to do this.
I had Catalina Direct also make me a new headstay, and they fabricated it too long. They quickly replaced it, but that sure makes for a more difficult job when the parts aren't right to begin with

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 07:49:35

Every time we discuss this people mention that flexible furlers are better for trailering. I just don't buy it, I never had a problem with my harken on my last boat and how can there be a problem if you have a mast to lash it to? It my require technique but so will any unit.

Edited by - on

Esteban
Navigator

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139 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 10:30:40

Frank,

Just a couple of questions if you don't mind. Im told that the snapfurl interlocking extrusion (or plastic sail track) once installed there is no replacing the headstay. Sound right? Is this why you installed a new headstay? Did you install the furler first, take measurements next and ordered the sail? Guess there is no way to order both at the same time without taking measurements? Do you still have your measurements handy? Is your headsail a 150 or 135? Im told by others that a 150 will tend to bunch up on the headstay when you reef because it's too much sail. How was installation? Do you recommend this furler? Lot's of questions, any light you can shed would be appreciated and Im very interested in your opinion. Thanks a million!

Esteban

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 12:53:38

Here's a plug for CDI's longevity -- I think mine came originally installed when my boat was new based on the model of my unit (4/6 Type "O", made '79 - '81). All that was required was occasional checking that the nuts were tight holding the lower bairing together. It always worked reasonably well until recently when a big Cal 46 smashed the drum. The new drum, from the FF 4/6 unit, required an adapter to fit to my old aluminum extrusion. It's newer, simpler design eliminates the need to check the lower bairing nuts. Hopefully, it will perform well for another 23 years!

As for the PVC extrusion, I don't think UV is much of an issue because unless you have a very short sail, the extrusion is covered by the rolled sail most of the time.

As for going through Cat Direct, you may want to check prices from other sources (including the manufacturers) because CD just sells stuff others make and adds their markup. I've also found their shipping prices to be a bit steep. You may also want to wait a couple months because sail lofts may still be buzy with more profitable sails for bigger boats. Others seem to be happy dealing directly with Ullman. I got my Rolly Tasker sail from Sail Warehouse. I think they also sell CDI furlers.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">how can there be a problem if you have a mast to lash it to?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
How does this work? Isn't the extrusion/drum assembly significantly longer than the mast, requiring that you bend the unit somewhere?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 13:42:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RichardG
 
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">how can there be a problem if you have a mast to lash it to?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
How does this work? Isn't the extrusion/drum assembly significantly longer than the mast, requiring that you bend the unit somewhere?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You might need a "splint".

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 14:53:31

Esteban,

What others did the Gents et? Are they tasty in stew, or do you just grillem?

When you get your roller jib, if you intend to furl it for reefing, be sure to have a foam luff. I sailed (and cursed) my 150 for three years before I had it installed. What a difference! I get good shape at even 50% rolled up.

BTW, mine is a CDI FF4. Love it.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay

Edited by - on

SJ
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2004 : 12:59:13

Yes, it was the 500 series model....and no was not the UV Gremlins...the parts were only on the boat for maybe a month.....This is the reason that the 500 was taken off the CD page...Not ment for such a large sail...Mayb and Engign or something along that size. My fault for not wanting to put up the extra boat units....First on i had was the CDI. Worked well, but just could not get the haylard tension I wanted.....Lots of headstay sag.....not good for pointing, and especially the way we know we all point now....UGH! The harken is great.....

Edited by - on

SJ
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2004 : 13:00:37

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2004 : 13:05:04

For those still looking at new/replacement devices: Practical Sailor had a large report of the main brands in their latest issue. They interviewed pro riggers for their content.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2004 : 19:29:51

One of the aspects of the Harken is that it is designed as a racing unit. That means it is easy to take the drum off and just use the foil. This also means that you can remove the majority of the weight from the extrusion for trailering. It also makes it so you can use a section of PVC tube lashed to the mast to hold the extrusion if you think it needs it. (with the drum off it slips right in.)

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 06:07:20

I talked with tech reps from Harken, Schaefer, and profurl, and they all advised me to stay away from an aluminum extrusion for trailering. I took their advice.
As far as measuring, I relied on Catalina Direct knowing the measurements, I have no idea what they were.
I replaced the headstay because it was about 13 or 14 years old (original on my 89) and I wanted less chance of failure. I also replaced all of my standing rigging.
I bought the Ullman 135 as I wanted a sail which could take it if the wind came up when I'm in the Keys on vacation, and don't have the boat units for a full quiver of sails ( I always thought quiver was a neat word)
If I had to do it all over I would go directly to Gary Swenson at Ullman as I don't like the huge Catalina Direct logos placed on the sails in addition to the Ullman logos. Looks like a nascar racer.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 17:28:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gloss
 I talked with tech reps from Harken, they advised me to stay away from an aluminum extrusion for trailering. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry Frank I don't buy it. Too many boats are campaigned (read trailered) with Harkens for that to be the situation. Only a "hardly able" would have a problem; they are out there and they can screw up anything, but that is what this forum is supposed to mitigate.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 17:45:44

Well, that's what the Harken tech rep told me, that is the truth. Whether or not you believe that that is what he told me, I really don't care.

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2004 : 22:46:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gloss
 Well, that's what the Harken tech rep told me, that is the truth. Whether or not you believe that that is what he told me, I really don't care.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm not questioning you I just wonder what was going through the reps head when he told you that.

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 09:53:19

Hey Frank,
I don't know what was in the rep's head, but the same thing was in three reps heads from three manufacturers. I'm impressed by a rep who recommends not to buy his product, there must be something behind it.
Each one mentioned the possibility of a bent foil if it is aluminum during stepping and unstepping.
Trust me, I wish I had an aluminum foil. The plastic one will twist and not roll up the sail evenly if used to reef the sail. Of course I was trying to reef in the Keys last winter during 15 to 20 knot winds and small craft warnings. I ended up with just a reefed main and still doing over 7 knots beating into the wind. Most of the bigger sailboats were motoring that day. I guesse we 25 sailors just have bigger cajones.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 10:39:42

I have a cdi ff4 for osmepneo, and have difficulty with it furling this season. I'm planning on getting the ball bearing add on kit for next year. Suspect I should have done that when I first got it.

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