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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Portable AC?

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ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/24/2004 : 11:45:34

After one day on the Catalina 25, thoughts immediately turn to air conditioning

. There seem to be 3 ways to go:

- marine-specific unit (expensive)

- window-unit + custom fitting (cheapest) (I have seen the past lazarette discussion, but we have an inboard diesel, so the lazarette is not accessible)

- "portable unit" (middle of the road)

The portable units use an air hose to dump warm air out and have a water collector like a de-humidifier (they seem to be glorified de-humidifiers with directed heat exchange).

It seems to be simple enough to 1. adapt the air hose to a port hole. 2. dump the water into the bilge and let the bilge pump take care of it (we're on shore-power at that point anyway).

Somehow it seems too easy an answer, what am I missing

Nadi ex-C25
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/enka
http://building-spindrift11s.blogspot.com/

Edited by - on

sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 10:34:52

Hi Nadi,
Living in Florida and enduring hot humid summer nights required me to add AC. I looked at the marine units ($$$) but didn't like the hatch installation, figured I'd drop it eventually. Next was the small house unit installed in the companionway door (check 250 tech tips for this idea) which I liked (under 100. bu too!) but again it had to be moved for sailing (not to mention stored safe onboard) and steped over while running and for trips this seemed a bit much for me. The last idea I came up with was a self contained AC unit (no need to drain off water while running) designed to be put in a room where window or door mounting is not an option. I bought my "Haier" 9000 btu portable AC (70lbs) on clearance last summer. Only thing it requires is to be vented. I came up with two solutions. First one is to vent out the head window which works, but make access to the head an olympic sport. I decided to vent out the back hatch. I didn't want to ruin the integrity of my starboard door, so I made another of wood and used plexi glass (bummer I cracked it when putting a screw in to tight) so I can see out during the day. I also ended up making curtains for it at night.

I found the vent into the cockpit can get hot while sitting outside, so I have a plastic dryer vent that hooks on and angles up. The plus to the vent is that it can serve as an onboard dryer that drys wet towels and boat shoes

While sailing I slip the hose off and roll the unit into the head, or roll it foward and brace up against the v berth. Love it.
Hope this helps.

Edited by - on

Jared
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 11:46:58

I just bought a Walmart special 5000 btu air conditioner and put it up in the front hatch. You can build a little box of out that hard insulation board to put around the front hatch and the front of the air conditioner to improve efficiecy like several folks in my marina have done, but for now we just wrap a tarp around the AC and the hatch to seal off the space. It cools some up in the main cabin area, but the V-berth turns into a meat locker - our Siberian Husky loves it up there. A slightly larger unit or that insulating box may allow the cabin to cool off better, but it seems to work pretty well. Total cost is less than $80, but my neighbor got an AC on sale and his whole system is less than $50.

Another friend has a similar setup but just puts the AC up on deck and runs round duct from the AC to a custom cut piece that fits hortonally down on the hatch with a hole cut in it for the duct and that is pretty efficient as well. The round duct connects to the AC with a flared out piece of duct which I assume is typical Home Depot duct stuff. He also has this Honda generator made for camping that is portable and runs the AC pretty well and only pumps out something like 15 decibals according to him - it is pretty quiet. He puts the generator in a cockpit locker in the back of his boat (Irwin 28ish) and has a dorade vent to ventilate exaust while at anchor. I guess we could rig something similar in the sail locker pretty easily if we wanted.

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 12:09:11

On Orion we bought a small cheap ($50+) 5000BTU window a/c. Propped it in companionway. Had my canvas guy make a snap-on shroud which fastens to the companionway trim, the a/c unit, and the hatch slide when closed. I made a support which sits under the extended outside end of the a/c and firmly supports it when in use---which is only at the dock, power to the boat. This works fine, and total cost except for the canvaswork, which you can do yourself (I dont know how to sew) was about sixty bucks. True, to get in and out we have to unsnap the one side of the canvas, enter, and resnap...but then, this is mostly used when we are wanting to be in out of the heat.Hope this helps, ron srsk Orion Venice, FL

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 13:29:45

Thanks everybody for the advice. We are trying to decide between a setup like Suzie'sand the cheap window unit attached to the front hatch. I will do some eye-balling this weekend to see if the front-hatch setup can be left there for sailing (with a 135 genoa) since we will only cruise.

Suzie, thanks for the pics, looks like a very nice setup. I actually found one that cools and heats [http://air-conditioner-home.com/product/MA9000AH.aspx], useful for winter in NC. Someone told me those units were less efficient, so expect to get a bigger one than you would guess from the BTU vs sqft. Technically 5000 BTU should be enough, so I looked at a 9000 like yours. What has been your experience?

The generator seems to ba abit overkill, for now we'll use it at dock. Maybe if we stay out enough nights to warrant it....

Edited by - on

sailgal
Captain

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USA
400 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 14:59:07

You are correct, the type I have is less efficient than the standard window type (must be something to do with the fact that no water drains from unit) BUT at 9000 btus I find in 90 degree direct sunlight the boat gos down into the low 60s, (never saw it lower that 61 degrees although that is a bit cold for me) I'd stay with the higher BTUs on this type of unit. I day sail a lot so the front hatch was not an option with out removal of unit (110 Jib). I still like the rear hatch AC idea, but moving it while sailing was my hesitation. (I sure like the lower price too...the unit I bought was around $300 on clearance

)

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2004 : 18:34:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">He puts the generator in a cockpit locker in the back of his boat<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

CARBON MONOXIDE is an odorles deadly gas......the above is a

BAD IDEA

The reason the floor units are less efficient than the window units is that although they exhaust warm air, the supply comes from (previously cooled) inside air, which gets replaced through cracks and holes by outside air, whereas the window units take outside air, cool the refrigerant and then spit it back out without wasting cooled interior air.

Here's a deal.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& rd=1& item=2487747149& category=26455& sspagename=WDVW br /

The folks at Mermaid are pretty nice. I'm sure they'd send you an installation guide for this unit. All you need to install this is 110, if you don't have a shorepower setup you can run an extention chord, and a waterpump, and some ducting, Home Depot will work. Some hose and wire and you got yourself a real mahreen installation....

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay"
C250 # 618 Currently under agreement.
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - Oscar on 08/25/2004 18:36:56

Jared
1st Mate

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USA
70 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2004 : 08:15:46

Oscar,

Will carbon monoxide vent upward through a cowl vent. There are two on top of that locker - the theory being one intake and one outtake for venting the gas. If that still sounds like a bad idea, I had better tell the guy... Thanks for the warning.

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2004 : 10:02:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">only pumps out something like 15 decibals according to him - it is pretty quiet.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think so. Rustling leaves are 20 decibels, a quiet whisper from 3 feet is 30 decibels. http://www2.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Decibel.html

I think gensets in a quiet anchorage are an abomination.

Brooke

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2004 : 11:12:02

People have died in their bedrooms upstairs from the CO generated in the garage downstairs. People have died driving around in cars with less than perfect exhaust systems. People have died hanging on to the swimming platforms of power boats while in motion.

CO is not to be messed with, it is to be treated with the greatest respect. Remember it is odorless. You don't know where the gasses leak and flow. Bringing a combustion engine that is not thoroughly exhausted overboard inside the hull in any way shape or form is flirting with death, period, end of discussion.

The noise level of the Honda EU2000i is listed (at 7meters) at 53dBA (No Load) and 59dBA (Rated Load)

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay"
C250 # 618 Currently under agreement.
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2004 : 13:16:14

About 2 years ago my ex-wife lost her father and grandfather, my son lost his grandfather and great grandfather, due to a leaking manifold on a built-in generator in their motor home. Died where they sat, never new what hit them.
I have great respect for carbon monoxide now and would never run an engine inside my boat, no matter how well vented it is.
When I move up to a larger boat with an inboard the exhaust system is going to be my First priority.

CVick
PanaceaII '81 C25 #2439 SRSK

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2004 : 19:34:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brooke Willson
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">only pumps out something like 15 decibals according to him - it is pretty quiet.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't think so. Rustling leaves are 20 decibels, a quiet whisper from 3 feet is 30 decibels. http://www2.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Decibel.html

I think gensets in a quiet anchorage are an abomination.

Brooke
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It is no issue to me, I play my stereo around 90 db most of the time.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2004 : 21:26:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I play my stereo around 90 db most of the time.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

But I'm sure you have the courtesy to wear a headset...don't you Frank,,,,

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay"
C250 # 618 Currently under agreement.
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 07:14:54

I'm sure, Frank, your neighbors appreciate you sharing your music with them (which is what I say when a boom-chicka-boom car pulls up next to me at the traffic light).

Years ago a neighbor was playing obnoxious music at high volume in their backyard. I put my AR-2ax speakers in the dining room window, put Shostakovich's Fifth Symphony on the turntable (tells you how long ago this was), and cranked up the amp. After about five minutes the neighbor got the message.

Brooke

Edited by - Brooke Willson on 08/27/2004 07:18:49

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 08:49:14

Here's another good deal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem& category=31281& item=2487814801& rd=1

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay"
C250 # 618 Currently under agreement.
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 10:13:46

I bought a Cruisair this year on ebay. It works ok, but it's not easy for one person to set it up (pretty heavy and unwieldy); its airflow and cooling capacity are less than overwhelming (yes, I took it apart and cleaned it and made sure it was in proper working order -- it came to me with the condenser coils filthy and clogged); I had to take off one of the handles so it would fit through the forward hatch on the C25. The moron who packed it did a terrible job and the gorillas at UPS took advantage of his incompetence.

I find ebay a lot better place to sell than to buy. I find the Cruisair expensive and marginally effective.

Brooke

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