Association Forum - Standing Rigging Question

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Standing Rigging Question

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Brent
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/26/2004 : 23:51:16

I am in need of replacing my standing rigging. My rigging may be as old as 20 years, I just do not know. Two of the T bolts are bent. One of the swaged studs is bent. Who knows what the inside of any of the swaged joints look like. The boat has always been in fresh water.

I really can not afford to buy the kit from Catalina Direct right now. Building the rigging out of Norseman products would not save any money, and would be much more difficult than buying the kit.

I was racking my brain trying to figure out a solution and came up with the following: An open turnbuckle with T bolts and toggles connecting to the chain plate and the wire rope. The wire rope would be fitted around a stainless steel thimble and swaged together using two sleeves swaged with a swaging tool. The swaged joint would then be wrapped with protective tape. This is not as sleek as the original equipment, but much cheaper.

My concern is for the strength of the hand swaged joint as opposed to the strength of the mechanically swaged joint. The hand swaged fitting has the benefit of looping around the thimble and then being swaged (the swaging tool I have has a 24" handle, more than enough to make the joint). The mechanical swaged fitting is simply sitting in the tube under friction. Of course both joints rely on friction.

If anyone has had experience with this delima please offer your expertise.

Thanks,

Brent
TR, SK, 1980

Brent
84 C25 SK/TR

Edited by - on

rclift
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 03:27:24

Brent, I have to think you are better off with the stuff you have rather then the fix you are proposing. T-bolts are really easy to replace and not that expensive. I just replaced the rigging on my tall rig and was actually pretty surprised at how good the old stuff was with no visible corrosion or meathooks. In fact the rigger kind of laughed at me for replacing it. Still it was 24+ years old and way beyond it's recommended life span. (This is also the cool northwest and the boat was lightly used for many of those years.) If I were you, I think I would go over every connection, replace what you have to while you save your money for a quality replacement.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 05:50:45

I second what Ray said. My rigging is "only" 19 years old and I'm on a fresh water lake as well. I had a good rigger help me tune it last year, and he said it was perfectly fine, many years left. Just keep an eye out for weak spots (corrosion, meat hooks, etc...) and replace what's needed. Do make sure you have the upgraded spreader brackets (SS vs aluminum) and that the shroud is secured to the spreader cap properly (with wire).

Edited by - on

Brent
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 08:12:42

I do have the updated spreader brackets. There are no frayed wires or visable signes of corrosion.

How can you tell when one of the Swaged fittings is headed for failure?

Brent

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 09:42:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brent
 How can you tell when one of the Swaged fittings is headed for failure?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
One test is to paint the wire right where it enters the fitting with something like nail polish (which will be thin and somewhat brittle), and then check periodically to see that the painted part has not pulled away from the fitting even a tiny bit. Unfortunately, the way stainless generally fails is from "crevice corrosion" that is out of sight where there is no oxygen. Only an x-ray knows for sure, but that'd cost as much as the new rigging. In fresh water, your best bet is probably Ray's suggestion--save up. If you ever want to sell the boat, you're not going to want a jury-rig... Nor if you ever want to sail it.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 12:40:14

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Brent
 The wire rope would be fitted around a stainless steel thimble and swaged together using two sleeves swaged with a swaging tool.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Brent - The method you are proposing is very difficult with the 1 x 19 wire that shrouds are made of. You will find that the wire will not want to bend around that thimble, and that the strands will pull apart. I have tried to make lifelines using 1 x 19 wire salvaged from shrouds, using thimbles and compression sleeves, and the loop looked terrible, with the strands clearly separated. I suspect that the strands were deformed by bending them that tightly and that they had lost a significant amount of tensile strength. FWIW, I have heard of emergency repairs at sea being made this way. I think that the SS rigging thimbles you see in mearine stores are meant for use with 7 x 19 strand wire, which is much more flexible than the 1 x 19 strand wire. I recommend you just save up until you can afford either the Catalina Direct replacement kit, or have a rigger make you shrouds with Sta-Lok or Norseman fittings.

Edited by - on

Brent
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
37 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 14:58:15

Thanks for the advise. I have been doing more research and stumbled upon a website //bosunsupplies.com

It had the following advise for swaged fitting inspections:

TESTING FOR RIGGING FLAWS: Copied from “Best of Sail Magazine’s Things That Work” , International Marine, Camden Maine, 1998.

Gregory Anstey of Wilmot, Nova Scotia, has devised an inexpensive test for locating rigging-terminal flaws.

Start with a can of everyday penetrating oil, and mix in just enough black or red dye powder to color the oil. Apply the mixture to the end fittings with a soft brush and let stand for approximately 20 minutes. Use a rag dampened (not soaked) with a solvent, such as alcohol, to remove the excess oil/dye mixture from the fitting. Then apply a light coat of talcum or baby powder to the fitting and let it stand approximately 10 minutes. Now you’re ready to inspect the fittings; a crack will appear as a red or black line on the powder(depending on the dye used)."

This sounds like it might be an effective way of inspecting the joint. Another article on the site went in detail as to how these joints fail.

I am going to try it out this weekend, will report on how it works.

Brent

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 17:09:47

Brent, I bought an '82 last fall, freshwater boat, Kansas, out of the water long periods of time. When I inspected my rigging last winter I found two popped strands on a lower shroud right at the top of the swaged fitting. One popped strand is enough to predict the condition of the rigging. I bought everything but the backstay. If the backstay fails with a sail up the mast stays up, if it fails with a sail down I am not on the boat and I get a new mast from insurance. I will get a new backstay eventually. Bottom line is the forestay and two upper shrouds are the biggies, replace them. And get around to the others when you can. Get the open turnbuckles from CD with the rigging. The rigging is cut to length for those turnbuckles and they are very high quality. I bought the 250 turnbuckles and it was a mistake, I am changing over to the CD ones. Also, if you have a spare headsail halyard it is wise to hook it to the bow until you replace your forestay, many's the rig that has been saved buy a spare halyard. And the idea about wire rope... nope.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 08/27/2004 : 18:24:18

Like Frank, I too bought my new rigging from Catalina Direct, and replaced it all, including an adjustable backstay. My boat was formerly parked in a slip about a hundred yards from an interstate by Lake Norman in Charlotte North Carolina. I was thinking about the potential acids from car and truck exhaust settling down into the swage fittings.
Also, check out www.riggingonly.com
They have some pretty good pricing, and lots of good stuff in their catalog

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.