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Tow rigs

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osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/30/2004 : 11:01:54

Bill Mienert of Fleet 43 has challenged me to get a trailer and bring osmepneo to Nationals July 2005. I'm considering doing that . But as I looked over the archieves (a little) I noticed people talking about 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.

1. Can someone explain to me what the tonnage ratings mean? I've asked several people and they just give me blank, expression and say, "I don't know!"

2. Which tonnage rating should I plan on getting for towing a std rig, wing keel - figuring, what 7000#?

3. How can one tell what the tonnage rating of a particular truck is?

4. Which trucks do y'awl use to tow your Catalinas? How often do you tow? Do you ever take it on a road trip?

5. What SUV's would you recommend?

My base parameters are v8 and 4x4. Is that logical? And are their others that I should include?

Thanks for your help.

Don Peet, C25/250 2004-2005 National Association Commodore
The Great Sacandaga Lake, NY

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 11:44:35

Don, I tow Encore! with a '78 Ford 250 extended cab 2 wheel drive with a 460 c.i. engine. I think it has all the power I need, and then some. In previous years, I have towed with a couple of older half tons, and several 3/4 ton trucks with engines ranging in the Dodge 318 area to a GMC 350. I usually tow now more than 5-600 miles round trip to get Encore! to the San Juan Islands up north near Canada.

With Ford, an F- 150 is rated 1/2 ton, a 250 is 3/4 ton, and a 350 is a one ton. Chevy has a 1500, a 2500, etc. (I think, while Dodge does the same). am no expert, but the rating is based on such things as the strength of the suspension (a 3/4 ton will usually ride a little stiffer, especially empty) the size of the wheels and tires (generally, a 1/2 ton will have 15 inch/6 lug wheels and the 3/4 will have 16" 8 lug wheels and floating axles in the rear...a good thing for heavier loads). Some 3/4 tons may have somewhat lower gear ratios, and most probably have a bigger cooling system...oil coolers for towing, etc.

A half ton truck is for lighter duty (hauling garbage to the dump/picking up a few sheets of plywood, etc.), while the 3/4 ton is built to work....and the 1 ton even more so, but it may be overkill for towing our boats.

A Suburban (comes in both 1/2 and 3/4) or Expedition (don't know much about them) would work in the 3/4 ton variety.

I would NOT tow our boats with a smaller size/weight vehicle such as a Tahoe/Blazer, etc. four wheel drive or not. The reason is the WEIGHT and MASS needed to STOP a trailer loaded with a C25. I lighter rig will likely get pushed around, or even jack-knifed in a "quick-stop" situaltion.

LOTS of rigs are powerful enough to PULL our boats for short distances, but your primary concern should be with STOPPING...IMHO. My truck weighs just under 6000 empty (with canopy). The boat and trailer has 6300 on the axles, plus hundreds of pounds of tongue weight. Just don't go too LIGHT on the tow rig.....

I am sure others will disagree, which is fine, but this is my way to start the conversation. BTW: I don't need 4WD so I don't want to pay for the decreased mileage, etc. A 2WD vehicle is LOTS cheaper, usually, to buy, let alone maintain. Once or twice I have let a little air out of the rear tires to get enough traction on a very steep ramp that was wet, and did fine....otherwise....just a luxury. Think about that part.

My ideal rig would be a 2WD, 3/4 ton (with towing options) DIESEL rig for going on "road trips". I want to do Kansas, too, but my Ford is as old as the boat, and gets less than 10 MPH empty....a bit less towing......

Best,

Gary B.
Vice Commodore
s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

Waterboy
Navigator

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USA
204 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 15:05:24

Don,

I spent a good portion of this summer towing my 250WB. I have a '98 F150 4X4 w/4.6l V8 (half ton), but I used my folk's '95 F350 2WD diesel duallie (full ton) for most or the summer.

The differences between the two are dramatic. I find the 150 to be quite sufficient for towing the boat short (<50 miles or so) distances, but even the lighter WB boat will throw the tow rig around, and at highway speeds the small V8 is working quite hard. Also, the automatic transmission seems unlikely to fare well under sustained heavy towing, especially without a large auxilary transmission cooler. The 4WD is nice for slippery ramps, steep hills, and muddy parking lots.

Towing any distance at all, the 350 diesel cannot be beat. The wheelbase is probabaly a third again that of the 150, and the dual wheels (which I originally viewed as a silly cowboy cosmetic affectation) provide a great deal of increased security when cornering or stopping. While it's a 2WD, it has a limited slip differential providing significantly more traction than an open diff. I tore up my trailer brake lines repeatedly and ended up going brakeless for the last several thousand miles. The brakes on the 350 (designed as a tow rig) are HUGE ... I could hardly tell the difference without the trailer brakes. I'd not want to try this with my 150. Diesel fuel was universally less expensive where we traveled as well. Disadvantages include increased engine noise and smell, but I think that at highway speds (say 65 mph), the diesel is loafing along at about 2350 rpm while the small V8 would be in excess of 4000 rpm and making plenty of noise.

I love my 'little' F150; the only times I've felt it was insufficient were when towing (didn't have anything to tow when I got it). The 350 is almost overkill for the WB boat, but if you're towing #7000 it might not be (350's max towing capability is around #10,000 lb). We certainly felt secure in the 350; more than once I had to brake hard enough to dislodge 'stuff' inside the boat, and the truck felt rock solid.

I agree with Gary's assesment and on his choice of the ideal tow rig - almost. I'd add 4WD to the 3/4 ton diesel, but only because I can afford only one truck and use it also for hunting, ski trips, etc. Also, (insert anti-flame war disclaimner here) I find Gary's choice of a Ford consistent with my perceived consensus of brand choice among folks who actually work their trucks.

Smiles,
Greg
C250WB 'Sabrosa'

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 15:13:40

I think a 3/4 ton Suburban would be a great vehicle.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 15:47:47

I just picked up a 3/4 ton burb. It is close to the perfect vehicle. it came with the power camper mirrors and 8.1 litre engine. It can keep up with traffic while towing! The downside is milage. It gets 11 in town and 16 on the highway. And that is empth. I live 2 miles from work so it does not bother me.
If I had deeper pockets, I would have gone with the diesel Excursion.

Tom.

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 19:37:22

Hey Don, Pretty much anything rated 3/4 ton, 250,2500 will do fine. You will need a good tranmission cooler if automatic. The reciever for the hitch should have it's rating listed somewhere on it. Your tongue weight should be 10% of the total load being pulled so look to be sure it can handle at least 800 lbs. I have a diesel and the milage is better then gas but the initial cost is more. However if this is the only time you are going to do a long distance haul, get the least expensive vehicle to get the job done. Get home and sell it for what you have in it.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 20:41:22

You are getting lots of good information. Just remember each truck is different based on it's options...1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton, engine, transmission, rear axle, etc. Another consideration is GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating), that is the total weight allowed of the fully loaded truck and trailer.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 20:47:36

"1. Can someone explain to me what the tonnage ratings mean? "

It is roughly the load carrying capacity of the truck with the load centered in the bed.

"3. How can one tell what the tonnage rating of a particular truck is?"

Ford F150 GM 1500 Dodge 1500 = 1/2 ton
F250 GM 2500 Dodge 2500 = 3/4 ton
F350, ... you get the idea = 1 ton

Within each model designation the load capacities can vary depending on options.

"4. Which trucks do y'awl use to tow your Catalinas? How often do you tow? Do you ever take it on a road trip?"

F250 4X4 Powerstroke Turbo Diesel Extended Cab. Road trip once a year.. tows like a dream.
IMHO the newer generation diesels are the only way to go in a HD truck.

"5. What SUV's would you recommend?"

Only the biggest, heaviest... Suburban, Expedition etc.

"My base parameters are v8 and 4x4. Is that logical? And are their others that I should include?"

IMHO the ultimate tow rig will be the a 1 ton Turbo Diesel 4X4 with a factory HD towing package. I prefer a manual transmission. A cab-high canopy on the back will protect all the 'stuff' you don't want in the boat when towing. (motor, ladder, gas tanks, tools, etc)

Edited by - on

roberoo
Navigator

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USA
182 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2004 : 20:52:31

I have owned a Suburban and a Conversion Van and I have been happiest with my Ford Excursion. When Towing it rides as smooth as a caddie. I am a big guy. And when driving this I am as comfortable as if driving my lazy boy.

Don't ask abot the gas though.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 05:33:48

4X4 is not necessary, cost more up front and in insurance and DMV. I dont even get close to the water when launching, my rear wheels are about 10 feet from the water, fin keel with the trailer on a tow rope for launching.
I started with a jeep grand cherokee with a V 8. It has plenty of power to pull the boat, but the boat and trailer weigh more than the jeep. This is where the trouble is. I used it to go to San Francisco from the San Joaquin valley. MISTAKE. Plenty of power but I was all over the place.
We now have a 1 ton dully, 4 door version -- that is the big 4 doors. This will pull anything and weighs more than boat and trailer with equipment. We were looking for a 3/4 ton but this was avaliabel used at a lot cheeper price than a new one. When looking in the brochures all brands pretty much pulled the same nomatter if they were 3/4 or 1 ton. The diffeence was weight you could put in the back. The 1 ton could hold about 800lbs more paylode.
I didn't like the looks of the dully, but it pulls like a charm. We have a gas version, the admrial didn't want to touch diesl adn its her truck. The only time that really makes a difference is when towing, diesl gets better milage. I was going down the highway last month at 75 and didn't notice, I had to keep slowing down so I wouldn't get a ticket. We go places but mostly it is her daily driver. Sometimes we pull the horses around too.
For extended driving stay away from 1/2 ton,

Edited by - MattL on 08/31/2004 05:37:12

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 08:45:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by osmepneo
 Bill Mienert of Fleet 43 has challenged me to get a trailer and bring osmepneo to Nationals July 2005. I'm considering doing that. But as I looked over the archives (a little) I noticed people talking about 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don,

If you only need a truck to tow to the nationals, rather than trading in the old Honda Civic and buying a capable tow vehicle, why don't you just rent one for the weekend instead?

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 09:12:13

Don,
I've read many people talk about renting trucks. I tried to do that, but in the whole of Merced county California there were no capable trucks to rent to do that. I tried U-haul, they told me they only had the vans and they didn't have hitches. I tried all the local car rental places and they had 150 trucks but no more. They also said they didn't want any of their trucks towing anything. Now the new Lowes has trucks to rent, but they are on an hourly basis not a day rate. I havent asked if they can be used because we have a truck now.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 10:19:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MattL
 Now the new Lowes has trucks to rent, but they are on an hourly basis not a day rate. I havent asked if they can be used because we have a truck now.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Hah!! "Hey, if I buy a sheet of plywood, do you suppose I could keep the truck for a few days to tow 8000 lbs. up over the Continental Divide?"

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 11:07:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If you only need a truck to tow to the nationals, rather than trading in the old Honda Civic and buying a capable tow vehicle, why don't you just rent one for the weekend instead?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Don, as I have started looking at, or rather for used 3/4 ton trucks, I have started thinking that might be the best idea.

Whatever we get it will not be a primary family vehicle. We went through that earlier this year. Concluuding Char doesn't want a truck for her "car" and I'm not willing to give up my convertible. So this truck will be a third vehicle. And will sit next to the house most of the year. So, I think rent a truck. Makes alot of sense. (Right, Clif

)

Still I have to address the same questions. And the truck needs to be ready for the trailer.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 11:34:48

Rent a motorhome.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 12:01:50

Rent a Catalina 25 out there for a week, do the renaming gig and turn it all back to its rightful owner in a week.

Edited by - on

Mike L
Deckhand

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15 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 12:12:32

I agree with Matt's comment about renting a truck to tow a C25. It seems to be much easier said than done. As far as I have been able to determine, there's only one rental company in eastern Washington that will do this, and the terms are pretty steep, with no option of turning the truck in at the destination point- pricey if you're traveling a ways and have to leave the truck sitting several days while you're sailing at your destination. If anyone has a rental solution, it would be welcome.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2004 : 13:24:38

For the Nationals, it would seem a judicious choice of crew might solve the problem.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2004 : 03:55:15

If you are going to tow the boat more than once or teice a year, or if you also have an RV trailer, get a diesel. I like the Cummins engine for it's relative simplicity and bulletprrof reputation for reliability. It is currently available only in Dodge Ram, but rumors are circulating that Ford will start using Cummins engines in 2006 or 2007, when Dodge might switch to a Mercedes-Benz diesel. As for the tonnage rating, the main differences between 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, and 1-ton are in the frame rails, brakes, driveshaft, rear axle, and suspension parts like springs and shocks. the 3/4 ton uses heavier duty parts than the half ton, and the 1-ton uses heavier duty parts than the 3/4 ton. If I was shopping for a truck again right now, I would get a Dodge 3500 (1-ton), extended cab, 6-spped, and of course the Cummins diesel (which is the main reason to buy a Dodge in the first place). But I probably wouldn't get the dually rear wheels; these are nice if you are hauling a really heavy cab-over camper, like a big Lance 12-footer, or towing a really big 5th wheel RV or livestock trailer, but for regular towing, like a Catalina 25, the single rear wheel is plenty and doesn't cost a fuel economy penalty like the duallies. I just wish Dodge would come out with a full-size Van or SUV equipped with the Cummins engine. Ford offers it's Powerstroke diesel in it's Club Wagon and Econoline vans, and also in the Excursion SUV, but so far Dodge offers the Cummins only in the Ram pickups.

Edited by - on

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