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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Boom Vang - Regular vs. Rigid?

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austin72
1st Mate

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48 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/17/2004 : 13:57:22

I'm curious if anybody out there has an opinion on rigid boom vangs vs. traditional. It seems many newer boats are coming equipped with them but I have no experience to draw from.
Thoughts?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2004 : 14:38:24

IMHO If I wanted a rigid I would have one, I do not have one. An adjustable topping lift is another light air sail adjustment and that versitility is lost with a rigid vang. In very high wind one wants to sheet high and twist off the top, I question the ability to do that. There is the issues of whether or not the unit is convenient to use with a pop-top. A traditional vang is also a preventer and a MOB hoist. Many people use the vang tail to wrap around their sail cover. When was the last time your boom dropped unexpectedly to the deck? Traditional vangs are often the old mainsheet blocks allowing someone to upgrade their mainsheet system with out throwing away the old hardware.

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Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2004 : 14:40:03

My 250 has a traditional vang. IMHO a big limitation to a rigid vang is it's nearly impossible to use them as a preventer stay when running. If you have a topping lift a rigid vang is really not neccessary.

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Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2004 : 14:43:42

Frank,

Looks like we were thinking along similar lines. Thanks for the reminder about using the vang as a MOB hoist. How do you have yours attached at the mast end? Big hook, snap shackle?

Edited by - Jeff McK on 09/17/2004 14:44:47

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2004 : 16:13:21

osmepneo has a boom kicker, to hold the boom up, a boom vang to pull it down and a topping lift to hold the boom up when I fall on the boom. The boom kicker won't support my weight (even tho' it's 45 pounds less then when drove to Florida last winter.)

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Mike L
Deckhand

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15 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2004 : 18:10:31

Frank: Would you mind explaining the nuts and bolts of using the boom vang as a MOB hoist? I'd like my wife and kids to know how they could use it in an emergency, but I'm afraid my informed guess is a poor substitute for an explanation from someone like you. Thanks. Mike

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2004 : 20:55:56

One of the reasons I like a conventional vang and full-on topping lift.

MOB Recovery ---

Put snapshackles (like the ones on the jib halyard) on both ends of the vang. To use for recovery, disconnect the vang and snap the end with the main block to the aft end of the boom.

A lifting sling then attaches to the snapshackle on the other end.

Swing the end of the boom with the vang attached over the side of the boat. Now you have a 4:1 hoist for lifting... and the mainsheet is still attached to help control the swing of the boom. Having a halyard-style topping lift allows you to raise the boom for more clearance when swinging over th rail.

Another common use for the quick disconnect vang is as a jibe preventer on long downwind runs. Unsnap the bottom shackle and snap to a stanchion base..

A completely disconnected vang can be used for other tasks needing a multiplication of force... lifting an outboard, raising the mast, kedging off with an anchor. Sets of line & tackle in the same configuration as the boom vang was known in the old days by the rather salty name of "Handy Billy". Used for lots of onboard tasks.

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2004 : 21:01:13

Wouldn't put a rigid on a 25 or 250 for most of the reasons above. The 42 boom would destroy the dodger, or possibly a person, if it broke loose, (halyard or topping lift failure) and I would have a heck of a time man handling the heavy thing around. The rigid vang on it is good insurance......

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay"
C250 # 618 Sold and settled, awaiting transfer of command.
http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/C250WB

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2004 : 21:14:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 An adjustable topping lift is another light air sail adjustment and that versitility is lost with a rigid vang. In very high wind one wants to sheet high and twist off the top, I question the ability to do that.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
OK, I'm confused (again)... As I understand it, in heavier air, you want to flatten the main to depower it--meaning (among other things) tensioning the vang--no? (If there is no vang, I agree that twist can help reduce heal, but I suspect a flat sail helps more, and a reefed sail is better than one with the top twisted off.) It seems to me that in light air, you want a full sail shape, but the fullness should be around a vertical axis, as you would get by easing the outhaul. Hoisting the boom-end with the topping lift will cause the sail to direct the wind upward rather than aft, which will not help drive the boat upwind. (I suspect the telltales will tell the tale.)

BTW, I like the adjustability from the cockpit with a topping lift for simple things like increasing the clearance for folding a bimini or simply having more headroom when the main is down. I don't know how much of that you get with a rigid vang or Boomkicker, never having used either.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/17/2004 21:17:43

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2004 : 23:06:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 An adjustable topping lift is another light air sail adjustment and that versitility is lost with a rigid vang. In very high wind one wants to sheet high and twist off the top, I question the ability to do that.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
OK, I'm confused (again)... As I understand it, in heavier air, you want to flatten the main to depower it--<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That is correct until it is not enough, when that happens you in effect add a second reef by hauling the boom to weather and slackening the vang and letting the boom sky a bit. The top of the sail twists off and spills air while you are still driving from down low. This assumes you are fighting to keep her feet under her and need to stay under way.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2004 : 18:04:34

I purchased and mounted a Garhuar rigid vang last year. I single hand as much as sailing with crew and have not regretted the addition at all. One of the problems it solved for me is the boom sagging into the cockpit when reefing. Since I have a tall rig and thus a lower boom height, this became a headache waiting to happen. Now I can concentrate on the reefing operation without having to worry about crew getting their heads bashed.

I've also found that with the Garhuar vang, which is supplied with a boom and mast track for easy removal when popping the top, you are able to slacken the boom farther by easing the sheet and adjusting the track slide.

As far as MOB rescue is concerned, I intend using my old vang to assist the victem up the ladder, not haul them into the boat with it. I can also still use it as a preventor if needed.

For 180 bucks, it was one of the top five acquisitions for my boat.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

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Ben - FL
Admiral

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880 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2004 : 20:11:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 
As far as MOB rescue is concerned, I intend using my old vang to assist the victem up the ladder, not haul them into the boat with it. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That is one nice thing about having an open transom

And certainly better than using the gaff

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2004 : 22:20:46

Open transom? Hmmmmmmmmm, I wonder if anyone has thought of lengthening the C25 waterline by extending it a foot and opening the transom.

Just a thought.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

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