Association Forum - preparing for single-handing

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

preparing for single-handing

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

John J.
Navigator

Member Avatar

USA
157 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/20/2004 : 19:09:00

Hello all. As fall approaches I'm about to conclude my first season of sailing, and I must say it was great fun. We bought the boat, hoping to learn to sail so we could do a bareboat vacation in the B.V.I.'s, which we pulled off the last week of August. All went well except for a couple of days lost at the dock as Frances skirted by to our North, but I suppose those are the risks you take when you book a charter right in the middle of hurricane season. Anyway, now I'm hooked, and the next project will be setting the boat up for single-handing. Since I'm a neo-phyte, I have all the questions needing answers. What's a good roller furling manufacturer? I'm sure I need to install some sort of deck plate under the mast for the blocks. How is the original deck plate mounted? What should I get as far as clutches and blocks? I'm really starting from square one here, so any information will be new information to me. Thanks

1987 C 27
#6387

Edited by - on

nate
Navigator

Members Avatar

240 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2004 : 19:28:47

John,
Congrads on completing your first season and also doing your first bareboat charter. Vacationing will never be the same again!! I'm sure the senior cadre will offer tons of advice regarding your question about setting the boat up for single-handing but I will throw my 2 cents in. I purchased the mast plate from CD and used it to lead all my lines aft via 4 blocks at the mast base. I found Spinlock rope clutches on sale at Sailnet and mounted doubles on each side of the cabin top just aft of the halyard winches. The other big thing to consider is single line reefing for the main and also mast gate covers so you can drop a reef and not have to worry about the sail slugs.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2004 : 21:01:50

Singlehanders wish list

Roller furling
Halyards led aft to clutches
Mainsail downhaul led aft
Lazyjacks on main
Single or double line reefing led aft
Mast gates
Boom vang led aft
Topping Lift
Jackline + Harness
Swimladder with tripline
PFD with whistle/light
Tillerpilot
Caribiner Clips on Fenders

Spinlock clutches are nice... Garhauer makes good line clutches too
if you prefer stainless instead of composite.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/20/2004 : 21:07:56

"mounted doubles on each side of the cabin top just aft of the halyard winches"

AFAIK clutches should go forward of the winch. You snug the main halyard with the winch,
then lock the clutch down and remove the line from the winch.
Using the same winch you tighten the jib halyard and lock the clutch down on it.

Edited by - on

nate
Navigator

Members Avatar

240 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2004 : 09:55:37

Sorry.....my bad! They are forward of the halyard winches. You're right Clam....might make those winches a little tough to use!

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2004 : 11:31:54

John,

You are on the right track with your planned upgrades.

I would add to Bruce Bott's list for leading aft:
Boom down-haul or Cunningham to flatten the luff.
Clew out-haul to flatten the foot.

If you go to the Tech Tips section and look up the mods for Snickerdoodle that Bill did to lead everything aft you can't go wrong. I followed his design exactly four years ago for Hey Jude.

So, I have triple spinlock clutches on each side. The
Stbd. side is for hoisting and reefing, with the main halyard and a single-line reefing for the first and second reef points.

The port clutches are for the topping lift, and when I fly the asym kite, the halyard and tack down-haul. A pair of rotating turning-block cam cleats near the base of the mast are for sail shape with the boom down-haul, and the clew out-haul. These lines are just draped over the hatch and dropped into the cabin.

I have a standard boom vang but added a two purchase wire to double the flattening capability. Its line is led aft and dropped into the cabin too.

I do not have winches on my cabin top, but usually I have no problem tensioning any of the controls. An exception is after reefing the main I cannot get the luff tight enough. Instead, I use my boom down- haul with a three part purchase, which works fine.

Hey Jude has a CDI FF4 roller furler and a 150 (Too big for SF Bay, should have been a 135)

The CD deckplate is good. I had a buddy make mine to their design. When you remove the mast you will see four long screws that go thru the deck into the post in the cabin. Drill your new deck plate holes to that pattern. Use lots of boat caulk.

Use large fender washers inside the cabin for the clutches and acorn nuts to prevent bloody scrapes on your noggin from the ends of the machine screws. Bed the new hardware well in boatcaulk or equivalent to prevent leaks into the plywood core.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2004 : 13:11:09

Bruce's list is good. Prioritizing the list may also be helpful for you.

To the extent you can't do everything all at once, I think roller furling and a tillerpilot should be done first; although they're probably the most expensive. I singlehand most of the time and those two seem to make the biggest difference because you can make all adjustments without having to go further forward than the mast (with lots of handholds everywhere). While I prefer my boat without any lines led aft (other than obviously the jib sheets and furling line), I understand why others prefer it otherwise.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2004 : 13:30:28

I single hand nearly every day. You don't really need anything EXCEPT a tillerpilot and thats only an important option.

Lines run aft is a big help, but not necessary.

Here's what I do.
(1) put tillerpilot in cockpit at the ready
(2) start motor, hank on jib and have it on deck ready to hoist
(3) walk around boat, drop all deck lines except the sternline on the corner I want to pivot the stern towards
(4) walk the boat 1/2 out of the slip, holding onto that sternline
(5) pull the stern in to about 45 degrees, thus completing 1/2 of your turn out of the slip
(6) give the boat a nice push back along the 45 degree angle
(7) step on, move to cockpit
(8) use motor and rudder to complete the backing turn,
(9) motor out of the fairway, engage tillerpilot, engine at idle into the wind
(10) raise main
(11) fall off a little to fill main, shut down motor
(12) raise jib
(13) shut down tiller pilot

Lines run aft, roller furling not necessary (although I have both).

If you dont have a tiller pilot just tie the tiller in the center during step 9 I've done it when mine was broke.

I can tack much tighter and faster by myself compared to using autotack on the tillerpilot.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2004 : 14:49:55

JB, it must be convienient to sail in 5-8 knots every day. You might find that 20 knots makes you want to stay off the foredeck and cabintop. Getting sails up is easier than getting them down. Let's face it, in spite of all of us sailing the same boat we all have very different sailing experiences and make very different priorities to meet our own circumstances. If you single hand in Kansas you will lead your lines back. We have maybe 4 or 5 auto pilots on the lake out of almost 200 boats, if they were advantagous to us we would have them.
If you have to walk your boat out then how do you get back in? I would think walking a boat out would greatly increase the likelyhood of dragging it along the corner of the finger. Do you have those rubber wheels on your slip corners? If you drive it out you turn from the middle of the slip and not the edge. I am not criticizing what you do, it is just another example of local knowledge dictating how one does things.
So John, if you want to lead your lines back you are in good company and there are few people who do it alike. Have you looked at my pages to see how I put triple clutches and single clams on each side?

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2004 : 17:19:52

I have done much as everyone else to equip for single handing, lines led aft, double reefs led aft, tiller pilot, jack lines, etc, etc. My last purchase will be a roller furler with 135 genny.

One item not mentioned thus far, and one I really appreciate, is a remote mike for my Standard Horizon radio. It allows you to access evry radio function, including power up from the cock pit. A very practical item of safety gear.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2004 : 17:21:46

John,

You don't really need anything special to singlehand your boat, just go do it, and as you gain experience singlehanding in all sorts of wind, waves, and weather, you'll start to make note of those things that would make your life easier while solo sailing.

Since you mentioned that this is your first year of sailing and you're interested in roller furling, I'll assume that you are not the hardcore racer who tweaks the sails constantly to get that extra .001 knot of boat speed, but rather the casual sailor like most of us here. This means that you probably would benefit more from something like roller furling or an autopilot than having your 8:1 outhaul or 6:1 cunningham led to the cabintop.

As someone who has singlehanded from day one, for me the two greatest aids, without question, were the roller furling headsail and autopilot. Just this past Saturday, I was out in winds of 20 of 25 knots, reported waves (not swells) of 4 to 6 feet (although they looked more like 3 to 5 ft), and white caps for as far as the eye could see. In this case, I left the mainsail covered on the boom and, after setting my autopilot, unfurled my 135 genoa and went on a 15 mile close reach. Without the autopilot and roller furling, I would probably have done just like every other sailor in the marina, and simply not bothered leaving the slip.

In addition to the furler and autopilot, I have added a couple of things later to make life easier such as a topping lift, cunningham, and outhaul led aft, but I have left the halyards and reefing lines on the mast. I left the jib halyard on the mast because I have a furler which means I set this line once a season. I haven't led my main halyard aft because it only takes me a few seconds to raise my main and once its raised, it doesn't come down until I return to the marina at the end of the day. I also like to put my mains'l cover on before I return to the slip, so I'm going up on the cabintop anyway. I also use the tail of my main halyard to secure the main to the boom.

Anyway, you need to evaluate what's important for you and form your game plan from that.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2004 : 18:18:41

John

Obviously everyone does it differently. Some like a lot of gadgets, others prefer to keep it simple. Either way is fine. Based on your post, I wouldn't exactly call you a neo-phyte, so maybe you've already decided on what you want. If not, I'd go along with Don and suggest you get out there by yourself and see how it goes - as is. You might find with the right techniques you'll actually prefer the simplicity. Worse case, you'll have learned what to do when the gadgets break!

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2004 : 21:01:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What's a good roller furling manufacturer? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't see any responses to that one yet. As a coastal cruiser, I'm partial to CDI because of cost, simplicity and reliability.

I may be wrong, but I think most cruiser-type sailors would propose that roller furling jib and a tillerpilot give the two most significant 'bangs' to making it easier and more enjoyable to singlehand.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You don't really need anything special to singlehand your boat, just go do it, and as you gain experience singlehanding in all sorts of wind, waves, and weather, you'll start to make note of those things that would make your life easier while solo sailing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well said!

I remember when I started out -- I'd read posts on this forum and became instantly convinced "I need this...I need that". But fortunately I went slow with buying a bunch of new stuff and with time realized what is really important in order to make sailing a more pleasurable experience for me. It also helped to sail on others' boats (with different 'stuff') to help me prioritize what 'stuff' would truly make my boat the best setup for me. For example, I crewed on a couple racing boats several years back and realized I really didn't like a bunch of lines running along the cabintop -- upon returning to my boat, I commenced to remove the two lines led aft by a previous owner (and most of the associated hardware). No doubt others would have added more lines and hardware. With experience you will find out how you like it.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 00:12:56

I've done it both ways... the hard way and the easy way.

In brisk conditions, going forward when singlehanding can be dangerous. Plenty of times I've the boat fall off the wind and take off sailing with me hanging on the wrong end of things. In 20 kts of wind (or so) this can be really exciting... and not in a good way.

I single hand my C25 a lot... yes, it's true, you don't need the whole wish list to go singlehanding. If you're young and fit, or sail in light air... you likely don't need any of it. That said, I think having a few key items will make singlehanding safer and more pleasurable.

----- the short list ------
1) Jib Halyard Led Aft.
2) Main Halyard Led Aft.
3) Dousing line (downhaul) on the jib led aft.
4) A topping lift.
----------------------------

The rest of it is icing on the cake.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 08:26:31

Bruce,

I agree with your "basic" list but would add item #5, some means of controling the tiller for short periods. It really doesn't matter what method is used. There are many to choose from, but you have to be able to leave the tiller for at least a short period of time (3 to 5 minutes)while under sail.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 09:46:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 ...I single hand my C25 a lot... yes, it's true, you don't need the whole wish list to go singlehanding. If you're young and fit, or sail in light air... you likely don't need any of it. That said, I think having a few key items will make singlehanding safer and more pleasurable.

----- the short list ------
1) Jib Halyard Led Aft.
2) Main Halyard Led Aft.
3) Dousing line (downhaul) on the jib led aft.
4) A topping lift.
----------------------------

The rest of it is icing on the cake.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If he installs roller furling like he indicated, then he can eliminate items 1 and 3 from your list.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 10:20:41

I think that after nationals next year I will add roller furling. If there is one thing I have learned this year racing, it is that I suck. I might as well enjoy the benefits of a reefer... and you know what I will buy!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 10:57:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 I think that after nationals next year I will add roller furling. If there is one thing I have learned this year racing, it is that I suck. I might as well enjoy the benefits of a reefer...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Once you get a furler, you'll never go back! When I "popped" open the genoa that first time, it must have taken a week to get the grin off my face!

Edited by - dlucier on 09/22/2004 11:02:02

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 10:58:05

<JB, it must be convienient to sail in 5-8 knots every day. >

I'd say 5 to 15 would be more accurate, plus to 20 in winter.

<We have maybe 4 or 5 auto pilots on the lake out of almost 200 boats, if they were advantagous to us we would have them. >

Much more important on the ocean, IMHO. Really needed for long voyages. Much more fun to hand steer when day sailing.

<If you have to walk your boat out then how do you get back in? I would think walking a boat out would greatly increase the likelyhood of dragging it along the corner of the finger. Do you have those rubber wheels on your slip corners? >

Walking the boat out is a great advantage single handing. It is basically using a aft spring to turn the stern, plus you are on the dock to control the bow and hold the boat off the dock. I have permanent fenders on the dock at the stern, but don't need them too often. I consider this good seamanship, not lazyness.

To return, I turn into the slip at about 1 knot (more if windy). Step off the boat, run to the bow, stop the boat. All my docklines are premeasured, pretied, and left on the dock so I just drop them on. I use springs as well (6 lines total).

Yes, I still have to climb on the cabintop to douse the main and furl it. I sometimes sail into the slip but usually drop it, furl it, and motor in. I let the boat motor upwind at about 2 knots under autopilot (and in the harbor out of the big waves) when doing this. In light air I forget the motor and just let it drift.

Yes, if I have my hanked on sails up - which I do in winds greater than 15 (110) or less than 5 to 8 (155), I have to go to the bow to get them completely dropped. This is when a tiller pilot is nice, although since it just takes a minute, tieing the tiller is adequate. I have a harness and clip on to the mast if I have to do this at sea in rough conditions.

The one place a tillerpilot is mandatory is on long voyages, like my recent single handed, 323 mile, 12 day voyage to Santa Barbara Island.

From my point of view docking is more worry to a singlehander (at least at first) than sailing. Docking / undocking is easy if you think ahead, have everything ready, and use a spring line.

I wrote this reply to encourage him to go sailing now, none of the huge list of expensive upgrades is necessary to singlehand a C25.

Undoubtly, he is still going on the cabintop and to the bow on the boat now, with crew at the helm. The autopilot (or a couple of ties) can take over that duty.

Using the line to help walk the boat back out of the slip doubles your manpower when shorthanded. The same line can serve as a brake when heading in.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 11:24:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">In brisk conditions, going forward when singlehanding can be dangerous. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In any conditions (local seabuoy reported 20-25 kt winds, with gusts to 30, and waves 6-8' on Sunday), I feel the level of danger is considerably higher going to the bow than just to the mast. Along the cabintop, you have the mast, boom, handrails, hatch openning, toerail, shrouds and at last resort the lifelines all within easy reach to hold and/or jam your feet against -- much less to hold forward of the mast, hence why roller furling jib is at the head of my list.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 11:29:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We have maybe 4 or 5 auto pilots on the lake out of almost 200 boats<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How many of those 200 would you describe as active "singlehanded cruisers"?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 11:39:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RichardG
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We have maybe 4 or 5 auto pilots on the lake out of almost 200 boats<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How many of those 200 would you describe as active "singlehanded cruisers"?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I would be hesitant to call any of use cruisers, we daysail, nightsail but seldom sail over 3 or 4 hours at a time. I sail 6 to 10 hours a few times a year. I don't think anyone has actually bought an auto pilot for Cheney, I could be wrong but I think most of them came with the boats. Once again, don't get me wrong, I can easily see an auto pilot as a huge win for most people, inland lake sailors are not most people.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 12:40:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RichardG
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We have maybe 4 or 5 auto pilots on the lake out of almost 200 boats<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How many of those 200 would you describe as active "singlehanded cruisers"?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I would be hesitant to call any of use cruisers, we daysail, nightsail but seldom sail over 3 or 4 hours at a time. I sail 6 to 10 hours a few times a year...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I sail 6 to 10 hours a few times a WEEK. This is why an autopilot while singlehanding is pratically a necessity for me.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 14:07:13

Don sail on big lake
Frank sail on small lake
Don lucky
Frank not lucky

Edited by - on

John J.
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 14:12:57

Well I certainly appreciate all the responses,and the info is very helpful, however as a newcomer, the more I read, the more questions I have. Some have said to "just go do it", so that's just what I plan to do. I'll try it in relatively light air which we have plenty of on our inland lake. Some questions: I don't have a tiller pilot, should I turn off the motor when I raise the sails? The boom is supported by a "pigtail" hanging off the backstay. If the mainsheet is not tight, won't the boat try to point itself to the wind? Also, I now have a 110 and a 150. Is the 135 the route to go? Thirdly, is anyone aware of any government subsidies available for these types of improvements?

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2004 : 17:57:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John J.
 I don't have a tiller pilot, should I turn off the motor when I raise the sails?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No! Drive into the wind slowly, tie off your tiller. Go up front. It'll stay on course quite a while on a low wind day. You can even steer it a little by the side of the boat that you stand on.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John J.
 
The boom is supported by a "pigtail" hanging off the backstay.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Unhook it BEFORE you go forward to raise the sail.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John J.
 
If the mainsheet is not tight, won't the boat try to point itself to the wind?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It will try to if the sail is tight. That's not a bad thing.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John J.
 
Also, I now have a 110 and a 150. Is the 135 the route to go?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No, not for hank on sails. You'll need the 150 for light wind days and the 110 for heavier air days. I even have a 75 for real heavy air days. Start off with the smaller jib because it's easier.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John J.
 
Thirdly, is anyone aware of any government subsidies available for these types of improvements?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
When you find some, please post the info here!!!

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.