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Fuel Storage

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dbehling
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/30/2004 : 01:07:23

We are planning to leave Owl Harbor Saturday morning and head towards San Francisco. If we get wind in our favor we plan to sail or motor sail. But...we are wanting to make good timing too. Where is the best place for extra fuel storage. The delta destroyers can cause alot of rocking so we don't want any spilage. Hate putting everything into the "garage". Would it be better just to leave an extra tank in the cockpit? Anybody else who has made long hauls, what have you done.

1979 SR/SK L-Dinette "Windy Britches" Sail #1205

Edited by - on

tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 01:19:20

I would think the cockpit would be the safe bet but I will leave it to others to advise on that with more specific experience. I am interested in your trip. After you have completed it would you report on it here? I am thinking of making a similar trip up the delta at some point - relive california history as it were. Where is Owl Harbor, Sacramento?

Edited by - on

dbehling
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 02:17:13

We are looking forward to our trip. Owl Harbor is about 1/2 hr - 45 minutes south of Sacramento. Off of Highway 12, by Rio Vista. We like this area because there are some larger bodies of water to sail in, to where you don't have to constantly tack. The only downfail, but blessing too. Having such a long swing, all the slips have this line under water that keeps them together I guess. And we have to pull up our keel about 12 turns to get in and out of our slip. Could be worse. We could be back at Folsom where our slip is sitting in the dirt.

We plan to head down the San Joaquin River maybe spend Saturday night at Vallejo, depending on our timing. We have a slip reserved at Richmond. Planning on doing a month of Bay sailing.

This will be real nice. We have graduated from a Capri 22 to our Catalina 25. Wow....what a difference. It will be on condo on the bay.

Plus, we are saving our trailer from being dropped into the salt water.

We'll post more of our trip and hopefully pictures.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 08:32:10

In preparation for my cruise this past summer, which ultimately covered 360 miles, I installed a 12 gallon plastic fuel tank under the tiller. The 12 gallon Tempo product, purchased from West Marine, is narrow enough to through-bolt eye staps to the deck and allow space to drain the cockpit if need be. While the tank took up some space, it was not enough to cause a problem. I now have a total of 18 gallons available, giving me a motoring range of roughly 108 miles.

I used to keep a spare six gallon plastic can in this same spot but decided that I need the extra fuel for cruising. The six gallon was not strapped down and moved around a lot when tacking. The 12 gallon proved to be a welcome addition since, when cruising, one tends to motor almost as much as sail.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 09:18:02

On a recent cruise, I used two Blitz 5 gallon fuel cans (Walmart $5.00).

These cans fit perfectly and somewhat snuggly side-by-side on the aft cockpit floor and are relatively out of the way of both crew and the tiller.

The only issue I had with them was that these cans are ventless and have a special spout. These special spouts had a tendency to leak so I purchased a different replacement spout (again from Walmart) that sealed the cans tight, but I used the original spouts when filling my tank due to the ventless design.

Edited by - dlucier on 09/30/2004 09:23:27

svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 10:07:35

I use a similar 5 gallon can to Don's that does have a vent. It sits in the aft cockpit and it has a sunbrella cover on it. I leave it as plain gas until I put it in the OB tank just in case I run into someone on the water who needs gas.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 10:31:46

I have a 7 gallon main tank in the lazerette, a backup 3 gallon tank on the floor of the lazerette, and I carry a 5 gallon spillproof (and leakproof) can under the v-berth on long trips. On my 325 mile single handed cruise this summer I got between 15 and 20 nautical MPG overall - considering pure sailing days and motorsailing days. I consider 10 MPG to be a good estimate for pure motoring as long as you keep it under 5.5 knots.

My fishing tackle is on the cockpit floor under the tiller so don't have room there like the others. Plus I want to get some of the weight up front.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 10:46:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 "...I consider 10 MPG to be a good estimate for pure motoring as long as you keep it under 5.5 knots."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Jim,

Is this fuel mileage estimate for a 2 or 4 stroke outboard?

On a recent rather long cruise in which I had to motor for 8-10 hours per day, I was using roughly 1 GPH with my 2 stroke (actually it was a little better, but I figure in a fudge factor for safety). I can't equate that to miles travelled because I did about 50-60 miles upriver in varying currents and conditons.

Edited by - dlucier on 09/30/2004 10:46:50

PZell
Admiral

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USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 11:06:33

1GPH is about what I get with my 8hp 2stroke. Maybe a little more if I push it. I've built a shelf in my '79 to hold a 6gal Tempo. So with that and 3 gal on the other shelf have a total
of 9gal readily available. On a cruise I've stored more in Jerry jugs down low in locker which is vented.

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 11:22:45

While extremely reliable, my old 2 stroke doesn't get very good gas mileage. I also get about 1 GPH while motoring. I'm sure 4 strokes do much better.

The most gas I've carried was 22.5 gals -- 7.5 in the regular tank locker, plus 3 five-gal jugs lashed along both rails. I think theory says you want to carry any extra heavy weight (gas or otherwise) as low as possible and as close to the center of the boat in both dimensions. I don't like to carry extra gas in the cockpit because it's too much weight aft and I just like to keep my cockpit relatively clear, especially on longer trips. I realize lashing 10 gals on one side and 5 gals on the other side along the rails is putting extra weight far out and high, but like many things, it's a the best compromise solution. Anyway, it works for me.

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 12:12:48

We generally carry a 6 gallon jug in the nose of our dingy to hold the nose down while towing. We have a four stroke Yamaha and can really go a long way on 6 gallons.

To get back to the original question about the trip, if you have six gallons in your main tank I don't think it neccessary for you to carry more then a small 2 gallon emergency supply. There are marinas all along the Sacramento River to the SF Bay. A good stop/resting place would be Benicia, very nice town near the water. You could refuel there.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 12:49:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ed Montague
 ...To get back to the original question about the trip, if you have six gallons in your main tank I don't think it neccessary for you to carry more then a small 2 gallon emergency supply..."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I like to carry double the estimated amount of fuel needed for any length of trip. A season or so ago, I was motoring on a trip with the closest landfall beng about an hour away, when I got caught in a squall. This squall put wind and waves on my nose, so much so that, according to my GPS, my once 1 hour ETA to port was now 9 hours. Having extra fuel is cheap peace of mind.

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 12:58:15

No argument Don, however along the Sacramento Delta there are marinas in great numbers. And of course the SF Bay won't cause any problem for fuel either.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 13:14:02

10 MPG - estimate with 4 stroke Honda 8 HP OB, motoring in calm conditions (no major opposing winds, currents or waves), keeping speed around 5.25 knots or less. Boat medium loaded and not towing. Mainsail up.

I use this old formula : use 1/3 of the gas heading out, 1/3 heading back, keep 1/3 in reserve. I always carry enough to motor the entire cruise while keeping 1/3 in reserve. Of course I can count on motorsailing or pure sailing and in fact got about 20 MPG over 325 miles on my summer cruise.

Don't forget the food and drinks (I carry a reserve of those too, always seem to be feeding someone extra).

I carried WAY TOO MUCH gas, food and water on my summer cruise.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 16:37:52

I like your formula Jim. I always feel more secure on Lake Superior with adequate fuel, evn though there is a harbor of refuge evey 20 to 30 miles. As Don said, a brisk wind with nasty chop, or squal, can play havoc with fuel consumption. I guess the bottom line here is that, for those sailing in places like the Sacramento River that is densly populated, eight gallons is probalbly enough. If you're out cruising and don't expect to be near a marina for a couple of days, extra fuel is a must. I dare say that our friend from
Sacramento would'nt leave San Francisco for say, Monterey, with only eight gallons of fuel.

'Nuf said?

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

RichardG
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 09/30/2004 : 20:15:37

I try to carry enough fuel for a whole trip because the fuel docks around here (including those at the island) charge significantly more than regular gas stations. Plus, while I have no first hand experience of it, quite a few locals complain that marina gas is often 'bad'.

Regarding those new spouts (without regular vents), I hate them because, while they're designed to prevent spills, in practice they seem to guarantee it. I suppose they take some getting used to. Fortunately, I have two of the older style ones, so I rarely need to use the new one (the only ones now available in California, unless you are lucky enough to find an old one at a yard sale).

Anyway, you can just see where I have one lashed on the rail in this picture. It's out of the way and it's easy to step over when I go to the bow (not very often with roller furling jib).

Edited by - on

dbehling
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2004 : 01:07:43

I knew this would be the place to get ideas. I suggested to my husband that if we need more gas there are plenty of marina's along the way. He also stated the fact that the prices at the marina's would be alot higher, and we have had bad gas at a marina before. So, I agree with him. Safer to bring extra gas with us. Thanks for everyones ideas. Keep you posted of our trip. If there are any other Cat 25's in the bay area, let us know, it would be fun to get together for ideas!!!!

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2004 : 08:27:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RichardG
 Regarding those new spouts (without regular vents), I hate them because,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Agreed - the new Jerry can spouts mandated by CARB (California Air Resources Board) a couple of years ago are MISERABLE. The worst aspect of them is the ridiculously low flow rate - it seems to take FOREVER to pour out the whole 5 gallons, and if you are having to hold the can in an awkward position - typical on a boat - your arm muscles are dying while the gas trickles out the spout at a snail's pace.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2004 : 13:08:01

take the cap off and pour into a big giant funnel....its what I do. I like the can because they don't leak or drip when in storage.

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JJM
Navigator

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USA
170 Posts

Response Posted - 10/01/2004 : 14:30:03

I'm in California too. I have two of those 5 gallon CARB Jerry jugs (they don't sell any others anymore in Califormnia!!) and I agree - they are difficult to work with. I motored my boat over 50 miles from the dealer location to it's new home slip and I used approx 1 GAL/hr and had to refill my 3 1/2 gallon gas tank once during the trip. I kept the 2 extra cans on the port side rear of the cockpit tethered to my backstay, as much out-of-the-way as possible. I don't think I would ever want to keep gas belowdecks because of possible fire. Also, if any spills in the cockpit, I can easily rinse down when back at my slip. I was over zealous in getting 2 Jerry jugs for that first trip, but now I keep one of them tethered in it's position and feel pretty comfotable that I have enough gas for, what for me would be, any long haul!

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