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roller furl on not

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/12/2002 : 13:31:50

My boat is an 86 with I think the original sails. I am thinking of a new set. I sail mostly day sailing on inland lakes with occasional trips to San Francisco Bay. I would like to do some more extended crusing but it will have to wait till my 2 year old is a little older. I like the idea of a furlling system, but lower cost of hank on's is desirable, to replace my 1986 issue sails. I know the initial investment is the trouble. Furlling sails are about the same price, but, you also need get the hardware. I can get a main and jib for the price of a furlling jib unit. For those with experience with both. Would I be better off getting a 150 roller, or a 150 hank on and get my old 110 jib repaired, (just a few rips in the seams). If I get a hank on I could probably also afford a new main.
Is the roller furler that much more of a safety and easy that it would justify for my humble uses.
Thanks for any Input.
Matt
C25 fin

Edited by - Mattl on 03/12/2002 17:00:19

Edited by - on

nate
Navigator

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240 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2002 : 13:50:14

Matt,
I have sailed with and without furling headsails and would not go back to hanked-on sails unless the racing bug bit me BAD. I also mostly daysail, often shorthanded or alone and find the convienence of a RF genoa to be awesome.
I have a CDI unit with a 150% genoa on it. This works well since it seems like I sail alot more on light wind days here on Lake Mead than really windy ones....having a 10 month old as crew dictates when I head out and in what type of conditions. Another thought is maybe a good used main from one of the sail warehouses....maybe save a bit vs. new and rationalize the new genny/furler. There always seem to be quite a few nice Catalina sails out there due to our large numbers.
I understand the big difference in cost and certainly can see where you're coming from but I think in the long run you will really come to love a furling set-up. Good luck........Nate

Edited by - on

ltenny
1st Mate

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35 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2002 : 16:23:10

Matt,

I am in the same boat with my C27. One option I have considered in order to stay with hank on sails consists of 2 modifications. Please keep in mind that while I've done some research on this and ordered most of the parts, I haven't tried it in practice so I'm not 100% sure how great these ideas will work out.

1) Buy a "jib ready bag" which is designed to be zipped over the lowered but still-hanked-on jib, thus you don't have to fold it and reattach it every time you go out. Link to this product at sailnet.com:

http://sailnet.com/store/item.cfm?pid=12021

2) Install a downhaul system on the jib. This is essentially a line going from the head to the tack of the jib, then back to the cockpit. This allows you to lower the jib from the cockpit. Resources I looked at:

http://204.220.138.252/newspics/charts/869jibdownhaul.pdf
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/Downhaul.cfm

With both of these done, I hope to be able to raise and lower the jib from the cockpit, and also not have to remove and bag the jib after every day out.

Good luck,

Lee

Edited by - on

Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2002 : 17:18:33

Lee is right about what I call a down-halyard (I get confused when it's called a downhaul, which I think of as holding down a spar). We have a roller furler on our C-25, but I rigged a down-halyard on our previous boat and it was a very worthwhile addition (considering that it's practically free compared to a roller). I found that it worked best when attached (via a small shackle) to the top hank--not the head of the sail. I also ran it through one of the hanks half way down just to keep things tidy--it was a very small line. Not only does it let you yank down the sail from the cockpit, but it KEEPS it there when a stiff breeze tries to push it back up.

The headsail bag is a good option, too, but if you're leaving it unattended for days, you may want to bungee it to the bow cleats and pulpit bases. The main idea is to keep the sun and the sea rat sh*t off the sail.

On our roller, we have a 130 that seems plenty big to catch light air and generate power in the slot between the sails, but is not too big for my wife to tack in most conditions. If it gets to be too big, we just roll it up a little. While the down-halyard is a cheap compromise, I can't stress enough how wonderful a roller furler is for comfortable cruising and day-sailing. You can reduce sail or roll it up completely while under way--no luffing and thrashing... Just spend a little extra, if necessary, to get roller bearings--an option on the CDI and standard on most others.

The season's coming (for us folks up North)!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2002 : 17:27:18

Matt,

I installed a CDI roller furler last season, and it is the wisest addition I've made to any of the boats I've owned. I often sail with my wife and she is foredeck challenged. Before roller furling, therefore, when I need to lower the sail, she takes the helm, and I go up on deck, lower the sail etc. If the wind picked up, or if it dropped, I'd do all the stuff needed to make a sail change. With char driving, and feeling very uncomfortable about it and about me being up there on deck.

The long and the short of it was that I'd start out with less sail, ie, a 110, and rarely used the Jenny.

With the roller furler, I'm more likely to open the sail all the way, 155 for me, and reduce it if necessary. I do the roller furler, Char still drives, but it takes no where the amount of time that it would without it.

I don't race my boat, and would rather crew, but if I do, atleast until I get seriously race bitten, I'd still use the roller furler.

Don Peet
C-25, 1665, osmepneo, std, wing
Schenectady, NY

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2002 : 19:21:33

Another thing to consider is that a roller furler is something that most people want when they are looking for a boat like a Catalina. A furling system is a great selling point and it adds value if you were to sell.

Don & Jennifer, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2002 : 19:31:56

Have you checked out the latest post in the Swap Meet forum?

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Flexible furler system fits std rig.
Top quality sail in very good condition.
Location: Dix Hills, New York.

Make an offer!

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=168

Don & Jennifer, Northstar
C25 SR/FK

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2002 : 01:45:13

Thanks for all the advice. I have used a down halyard system on my old boat, worked well. I think I will set that up till I can convince my wife that a roller furler is an absolute necessity.
Thanks again
Matt

Edited by - on

Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2002 : 11:01:54

Matt: Do you know anyone with a roller furler? If so, see if you can take your wife sailing with them... <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 SR-FK #5032 "Passage" in CT

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2002 : 12:42:18

I am a "hanks" guy. I don't want the expense of a furler, and I want to put up anything from a storm jib to a 150. I use a smaller head sail when I go to weather in a fresh breeze. I haven't seen a furled jib that sails real well partially furled. There's a guy here in Portland, OR that sells a "Sailclip" device that allows one to clip the hanks on very quickly in one motion, rather than one at a time. It makes change-overs quicker and easier. It's on the web; check it out. I would like the advantage of a smaller inventory to store with a furler, but I don't leave home without a small (80%), or storm jib anyway....There's no shame in changing sails, and it's just not that big of a deal...(signed, The Old Fossil)

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 03/13/2002 : 13:31:50

Old Fossil,
Do you have that web site. I'll try a google search too.
Thanks
Matt

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2002 : 14:09:44

Matt,

If racing is important to you, hanks are preferable to a furler. You can shape and trim the sail better with hanks than with a furler. But, I have seen some good sailors who have made their roller furlers reasonably competitive, and who can frequently stay up front among the leaders.

Your post indicates that you are primarily a cruiser, and you have a small child. For safety, and in order to avoid frightening your family, you don't want the boat heeling excessively and pitching wildly in a squall. From what I have heard, San Francisco Bay can be very challenging. Also, when you need to reduce the sails, your wife might have to attend to the safety of your child first, and she might not always be available to help you work the boat. The best feature of a roller furler is that you can quickly and easily adjust your sail area from the cockpit, without anyone having to go onto the foredeck to handle the jib, and you can even do it shorthanded, if necessary.

A few years ago, I chartered a 38' boat with a roller furler, and got caught in a sudden and very nasty squall with hard driving rain. At first we reefed the mainsail and rolled up a little of the jib. As the wind and rain increased, but before it got really bad, we dropped the main completely. Then, as the wind increased, we progressively rolled up more of the jib until only about forty square feet was exposed. It was all very comfortable and controlled, and, after the mainsail was down, we were able to stay reasonably warm and dry behind the dodger. If you or your wife had to go forward to change the jib, with waves smashing against your feet, it would not only be unpleasant, but very dangerous. Moreover, if you or your wife should go overboard, how would the other singlehandedly maneuver the boat back under those conditions, with too much sail flying, or, with your jib dragging in the water? It is best for everyone to stay in the relative safety of the cockpit, and to be able to adjust the sails and maintain control of the boat under those conditions.

Lee's suggestion for a jib downhaul system is a good idea for a boat with a hanked-on jib, but, for a cruising sailor it is not nearly as good as a furling system. The jib downhaul system only enables you to bring down the jib from the cockpit. It doesn't enable you to raise a storm jib. Either you or your wife will still have to make that dangerous trip to the foredeck to hank on a storm jib. If you take down all your sails on a C-25 in a squall, you will no longer be able to control the boat. The outboard motor will cavitate, and be useless. You need to keep the boat sailing. If you have a jib furling system, you can reduce the sail area to handkerchief size while everyone stays in the cockpit, and keep the boat sailing.

If you take your existing mainsail to a sailmaker, you can have the seams re-stitched, and any frayed areas can be repaired or reinforced, and that should not be very expensive at all. I am presently having it done on a 21 year old 150% genoa, and expect it to cost about one hour of labor for the re-stitching (about $44.00), plus the cost of any other incidental repairs that might be necessary. (I have a new 150% genoa, but the old one has a much better shape for light to medium air racing.) Unless your existing mainsail is really rotten, you should be able to get a few extra years out of it, and the money you save will help you with the cost of the furling system.

My suggestion is that you buy a new 150% genoa and a roller furling system, and have your old mainsail restitched. Depending on their condition, you might be able to sell your old jibs for as much as a couple hundred dollars.

If you are primarily a cruiser, you should definitely convert to a furling system. Over the long run you will be glad you did.

Steve Milby "Captiva Wind" C-25 T/FK #2554

Edited by - on

Ken Cave
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2002 : 23:10:56

MATT:

If you are really interested in a roller furling system and a sail to match, try contacting Sail Warehouse in California (800 495 7245)

They have packages that will knock your socks off!!

Ken Cave

Edited by - on

albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2002 : 23:57:53

Abacus came with a 110 Schaeffer wire roller furler. It's good for furling, but no good for reefing and much cheaper than a CDI or similar roller furler. You basically take your existing sail and have a wire sewn into the luff. A weighted swivel is attached to the jib halyard and the roller is attached to the deck just aft of the forestay.

In fresh winds (when I prefer to stay in the cockpit) my roller 110 is perfect. In light air, when its also much easier to go forward, I use a 170 3 ounce HANKED ON sail that I purchased from Masthead (http://www.mastheadsailinggear.com/) for $150. The 110 wire furled jib and weighted swivel come off easily, and I attach the tack directly to the roller drum (which doesn't need to be removed).

Simple to use, you retain the ability to change sail and even race. The price is right also.

Then again I sail in relatively protected waters, I don't really need roller furling, and the weather isn't constantly changing. In SF Bay area, I would go with a 135 roller furling system. My understanding is that jiffy reefing was developed in SF Bay due to the constantly changing wind speeds.

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus': http://www.comhertz.com/abacus

Edited by - albert on 03/15/2002 00:03:08

Edited by - on

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