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$^^&)%@%^ Raymarine.

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Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/12/2004 : 17:01:59

Ok, I feel better now, but the older I get the more I get pi&&ed off about these things. I should have medication on hand for these situations.

I'll give you the conclusion first. Just like the other evil empire we know (Microsoft) Raymarine apparently has a habit of pushing the new line out the door onto the shelves without thouroughly testing it first........I guess the customers will figure out the bugs for them. It gives them the competitive edge for a few months in the ratrace with Garmin.....$$$$$.

So, since I needed a lot of coverage, Chesapeake to Key West, I had to look at the cost of the cartography, and work backwards to the unit. Bluechart (Garmin) six chips, $200.- each......ouch! The brand new Navionics gold, two chips, $200.- each. (Less than paper, although I do have the appropriate chart books) SOLD. So,working backwards there were a few units that would take the golds, I chose the Raymarine 435. (Found one on the internet for less than West Marine, they matched it, bought it in the store in Delaware, no shipping, no sales tax...life was good)

Except, when I turned it on, there were no soundings, and no depth colors.....HELP!

Called Navionics, no help. Called Raymarine. Yeah, we got a software upgrade for that. You can send it in we'll fix it. Takes two weeks. TWO WEEKS? I'm going sailing you morons, I just took this thing out of the f^&%ng box! (Nurse, nurse

, he's loosing it!)

Or I could download it from their web site, onto a compact flash card and stick it in the unit according to the (very thorough) on line instructions. Thanks to my reasonable computer literacy, and a deskdrawer full of stuff, I was able to download it with one computer, stick it on an external hard drive, and then transfer it to an outdated laptop that hat a PC card slot where I was able to put it on the compact flash card in an adapter.

Three hours and five years of my life later I am looking at a screen with a recognizable chart on it. Fortunately I had fired the unit up at home with a powersupply wire nutted and electrical taped to the plotter. This procedure would not have been possible on the boat.

Finally I called the West Marine store, "yes we had problems with the C-series (another older series) too, but we finally got an upgrade chip for it in the store" but they had not heard this with the (new) 435. Then I called West Marine national, and explained that Raymarine was making their biggest customer (WM) look bad. They had also not heard anything about this problem. Now they have. I told them they should be more aware, and pro-active (so sorry, we'll mail you a chip with upgrade overnight no charge). But that they could regain my trust by sending me a pile of those $15.00 coupons....

We'll see.

Here's the scary part. My lack of soundings was only one of the bugs. Another was that if you hit the MOB button, and subsequently the unit loses fix, even for a moment

the thing crashes

Ooohm......

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Formerly C250 WB #618)

Edited by - Oscar on 10/12/2004 17:03:37

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 18:03:15

Ah! The wonders of modern technology...

Derek

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 19:13:14

Oscar,

Don't hold back, tell us how really you feel about this. Then go have a long chat with Dr. Daniels & his magic tonic.

What a PITA this must be for you. At least you figured all this out before you set out. Best of luck with the whole mess.

Edited by - Jeff McK on 10/12/2004 19:15:16

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 19:56:56

You may have just pushed me over to the Garmin side.

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 20:43:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">and subsequently the unit loses fix, even for a moment the thing crashes<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You'll get a better signal if you take it out of the microwave.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 20:58:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You may have just pushed me over to the Garmin side.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Remember that Garmin left everyone hanging that bought their g-chart equipment, which, as of November 30 of this year, they will no longer support.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You'll get a better signal if you take it out of the microwave.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Funny....ironically the "test bench" at home is not far from the MW.....

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Formerly C250 WB #618)

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 21:24:00

forget it. You got to have paper charts anyhow. Get a refund. Buy a simple point to point GPS. You'll be a better navigator for it (bet you want a full avionics cockpit with sail-by-wire and heads up display!)

There is no better way to go from the Chesapeake to Florida then with Skipper Bobs by your side, a paper chart, and highlight the course as you go, counting off each bouy as you pass it.

If you're going "outside" who needs it? If your inside, who needs it? You are going to plan your route, write down all the GPS coordiantes, compute course and distance (time) for each leg, plan on alternate ports, and write all that down in your log before you leave each day? (I did on long passages, not needed in the ICW).

For the above a charting program on your laptop helps a lot but you don't need it underway. I got my MapTech charting software free with a SeaTow membership. (I was in SeaTow and Vessel Assist - cheap insurance for the trip South - get rescued for free by ANYONE).

If you do it my way you'll be ready in case of electrical/electronics failure.

Got radar and fishfinder (depth) don't you? Much more important than the chartplotter (IMHO). Fishfinder is MUCH better than just depth (see the bottom at all times). Single most important instrument!! Never run aground (it will ruin your day).

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 22:42:42

Prozac works well for anger management.

Lot's of products get shipped these days with incomplete and/or partially tested software . . . after all (in addition to the competition) there's management bonuses and Wall Street analysts at play here! And they steer customers to the internet for patches to keep their costs down!

It's a hurry up and wait world still. At least the important things in life, aren't things . . .

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 22:43:43

Hmmm, you're talking to a guy who's been navigating for a living here for two decades.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">bet you want a full avionics cockpit <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I most definitely do not want that. I have one at work, thank you.

I do have paper, I do not involve a computer, as you cannot have it with you at the helm. I do not plan a precise route, it's a waste of time as actual wind, current, sea state, traffic, etc. make for too many variables. I do sneak a peek at the number on the buoy, and I have a battery powered simple Garmin 76 for when the electrics crap out.

The main reason that I got the plotter, is that the cartography is reasonably up to date on the day of purchase, and can be renewed anually, or bi-annually for a resonable fee. It is also readily viewable at the helm, in a weather resistant package, and yes it is very helpful to have the thing put a "You are here" thingie on it. Furthermore, the "latest" paper chart books available are based on almost 100 charts that were a out of date when they were printed,some as many as seven years ago, are subject to a huge pile of LNM's, and would require an impossible amount of time to bring up to date. Replacing them with slightly less out of date paper charts would cost more than updating my two Navionics Gold chips. There are up to date charts available, but, that cost would exceed the cost of the plotter plus chips, and would come back every time I wanted to update my information.

I am not a gadget freak, I do want up to date information, and nowadays the most time/cost efficient way to obtain it is in a chip.

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Formerly C250 WB #618)

Edited by - Oscar on 10/12/2004 22:57:47

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 10/12/2004 : 23:34:01

Well, thats good to hear, but you didn't comment on "sail by wire". Did you see the movie "The Jackal" with Bruce Willis? He bought a Oceanis 440. It was totally automated. All he had to do is push a button and the spinnaker deployed. He hid a giant gun inside the boom. We saw it over the weekend and that's where that comment came from.

I know you are a professional navigator, but I've been navigating on the sea for at least a decade and have made some very tough passages (Georgian Bay Small Craft route comes to mind). The laptop computer with Maptech really helps route planning before you leave port. But doing it manually is fine, too. Anything to prevent errors (I once entered destination lattitude as 46 30 N not 45 30 N, also screwed up and entered the wrong waypoint for Nassau Bahamas - was heading around the island - something didn't look right).

The point is not to plan a precise route but to determine all your waypoints before you are out there rocking and rolling. Even alternate ports and "danger" waypoints.

I didn't update my paper charts and the only place I got lost was Beaufort SC. There were a couple of points where "Skipper Bobs" was out of date as well. Make sure to have the latest edition.

Anyways, good luck with the gear. Heading north/south oln the ICW is easy and you could do it with only a depthfinder, yellow highlighter, chartbook and binoculars (plus good first mate!) ICW distances are measured in statute miles.

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

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USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2004 : 19:05:56

I seem to recall that our high-tech GPS maps are digitized from those paper charts, some of which may be quite old. Don't confuse precision with accuracy.

Edited by - on

JJM
Navigator

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USA
170 Posts

Response Posted - 10/13/2004 : 19:18:03

Hey Oscar,

Maybe you should throw out that chip and start using PHOENIX, SCEPTRE or FOMS. And I am pretty sure you know what I mean - ha!

(inside joke everyone!!!)

Edited by - JJM on 10/13/2004 19:19:35

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 10/14/2004 : 21:09:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I seem to recall that our high-tech GPS maps are digitized from those paper charts, some of which may be quite old.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am under the impression that lnm's are incorporated.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Maybe you should throw out that chip and start using PHOENIX, SCEPTRE or FOMS. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hmmm, just pick up your paperwork at the dockmasters office....wouldn't that be nice.

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Formerly C250 WB #618)

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