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Gonna need a new tow vehicle . . .

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OJ
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USA
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Initially Posted - 10/16/2004 : 23:06:08

The cam on my 3/4t Suburban is wearing out. It gets such poor gas mileage I can't justify repairing it.

While this was a great vehicle for towing the C25 - I can't help but wonder (since only 10% of the trailer/boat weight rests on the hitch) if a 1/2t with 1 or 2 leaf springs added would suffice.

I guess the only engines today that have 4-bolt mains are the big blocks? Does anyone make a light truck transmission today that's as durable as the GM 400 turbo?

Any thoughts?

Edited by - OJ on 10/16/2004 23:36:47

ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 10/16/2004 : 23:44:34

How much do you tow and in what sort of terrain?

If the answer is anything but 'a little bit' and 'flatland' I'd get a 3/4 ton (or better) something. There's lots of differences between the 1/2 and 3/4 ton rigs.. frame size, axles, differentials, tranny, drivelines, brakes (& etc) that makes them safer with 4 tons (give or take a ton) hanging on the hitch.

Gas here in NW Calif is $2.50 a gallon.. it's hard for me to see anything but Diesel in my future as far as heavy-duty rigs go. My current truck (4x4 Powerstroke that weighs 7,500 lbs) gets 17.5 mpg around town... 20 on a medium length trip and pushes 22 on a long run. MPG towing the C25 runs about 14.5 (pulling quite a few hills).

The right answer for you depends on a lot of variables...

Edited by - on

lcharlot
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Antigua and Barbuda
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Response Posted - 10/17/2004 : 19:17:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 
Gas here in NW Calif is $2.50 a gallon.. it's hard for me to see anything but Diesel in my future as far as heavy-duty rigs go. My current truck (4x4 Powerstroke that weighs 7,500 lbs) gets 17.5 mpg around town... 20 on a medium length trip and pushes 22 on a long run. MPG towing the C25 runs about 14.5 (pulling quite a few hills).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I get just about the same fuel economy numbers as ClamBeach with my '98-1/2 Dodge with the 24 valve Cummins and a 5-speed. If I needed to replace it today, I would still get a Dodge (for the Cummins engine). Reasons: The Cummins, being an in-line 6 instead of a V-8, is considerably easier to do routine maintenance on, as the filters are more accessible. There are no glow plugs to fail (there is a heater grid in the intake manifold instead). The camshaft and fuel injection pump are driven from a gear set instead of a chain, which should last at least twice as long. The fuel injection pump in the Cummins is mechanically much simpler than the pump in either the Ford or Chevy diesels (I equate simplicity with reliability).
Transmissions: The NV-5600 in the Dodge is a 6-speed transmission designed especially for high-torque diesel service, and is possibly stronger than the ZF 6-speed transmission in the Ford Powerstroke. I won't even mention automatic transmissions except to say that I would not buy either a Ford or a Dodge diesel with an automatic. IMHO, neither manufacturer offers an automatic that is strong enough to stand up to 600 lb/ft of torque at 1500 rpm, which is what these diesels can pump out, and deliver trouble-free service for at least 150K miles (which it what I expect from a vehicle costing upwards of $40,000), and do this while towing an 8500# boat and trailer. The new Allison automatic in the Chevy Duramax Diesel is supposedly designed for Diesel service from the ground up, and is probably a stronger unit than the Ford or Dodge auto trannies, but until it has been around for a few years and has some history to judge it's reliability, I would probably avoid it. I know some people have to have an automatic for various reasons, if you are one of these, I recommend you install a high capacity tranny cooler and change the fluid at least every 30,000 miles if you live in an area with a cooler climate, or 20,000 miles anywhere that summer season temps frequently exceed 95ºF. And plan on the cost of replacing/rebuilding the transmission every 80~100K miles.

Edited by - on

OJ
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Response Posted - 10/18/2004 : 23:08:59

Thanks for the expert advice. This was going to be a third vehicle - strictly for towing and the occasional trip to the lumberyard.

Good grief, it may be time to move up to a larger boat . . . lose the tow vehicle and trailer, related maintenance, and insurance.

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
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Response Posted - 10/18/2004 : 23:15:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Good grief, it may be time to move up to a larger boat . . . lose the tow vehicle and trailer, related maintenance, and insurance.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was thinkin' the same thing. For the price of a truck and all its ancilliary costs you could probably get yourself into a decent sized boat with money to spare.

Edited by - on

OJ
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Response Posted - 10/18/2004 : 23:26:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
. . . For the price of a truck and all its ancilliary costs you could probably get yourself into a decent sized boat with money to spare.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Don, I'll add this to my "Pro's" column.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
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Response Posted - 10/20/2004 : 07:09:47

I just asked the same question (size of tow vehicle) and the answer that came back from all our experts was that a 3/4 ton truck is minimum because (as I understand) it weighs more than the hauled load. I got a 94 Suburban and am very pleased with it, as a third vehicle, until I stopped to fill the 42 gallan tank.

Ugh! I decided to go the SUV route because of passanger carrying capability and inside storage for boat stuff and luggage.

Planned us is as you're thinking OJ, tow it to and from the lake, possibly a short trip during the summer and to Nationals. Also to get stuff at Home Depot or Lowes, etc.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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Response Posted - 10/20/2004 : 10:33:07

Once you go to a permanent wet slip, regardless of the size of the boat, you'll never go back to dragging one around...unless you are a hard core racer, or absolutely love going to different bodies of water. IMHO, it is much easier and more fun to spend a day on the water (or even in the slip) with the boat permanently in a slip rather than the hassle of rigging/derigging.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
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Response Posted - 10/20/2004 : 17:59:10

I'd agree, At Ease, and do keep osmepneo in the water for the season, rigging and derigging only to haul out nd launch in the spring. The trailer is so that I can go to Nationals next spring and save on winter storage and haul out fees at home.

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lcharlot
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Antigua and Barbuda
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Response Posted - 10/21/2004 : 00:06:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by osmepneo
 keep Osmepneo in the water for the season, rigging and derigging only to haul out and launch in the spring. The trailer is so that I can go to Nationals next spring and save on winter storage and haul out fees at home.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Agree 100%. I still want to be able to take cruise vacations to other places, like the San Juans or the Channel Islands. It'd be really cool to hook up with our friends in Fleet 7 (San Diego) sometime for a joint cruise! Having a trailerable boat, I feel a lot less stressed about boat expenses knowing that if I had some kind of financial crunch or long term illness and had to quit boating for a while, I can bring my Catalina 25 home and store her at no charge in my own back yard. Comparing annual cost of ownership of a Catalina 25 to a Catalina 30 with members of my club who have larger boats, I get the impression that the larger boat can easily cost 50% more just on annual maintenance, insurance, and slip fees. Another consideration for me is that my wife has never really enjoyed sailing, and only comes out to the lake once or twice a year (not even once this year), so since sailing is just my personal, unshared, obsession, I can't really justify the cost of a bigger boat. I am seriously considering the merits of doing what Don Peet and Frank Hopper do: keep the boat in a slip for the 7 months of the year of nice weather, then bring her home for the 5 months of winter. The winter haulout allows for repairs, cleaning, and other "projects" in as convienient a location as possible (my own backyard), and the boat is safely stored on the hard during the winter storms. I have year-round dry storage at Folsom Lake, but the lack of electricity and water in the storage yard makes it difficult to do boat projects involving power tools, and cleaning the boat is pretty much impossible without a water hose, so she's shamefully dirty most of the time. A slip at Owl Harbor for 7 months would cost about the same as Folsom Lake dry storage does for 12 months. Hmmmmm, really kind of a no-brainer, but unfortunately most of my sailing club friends live closer to Folsom Lake than any other sailing venue, and they're not inclined to move their boat's to somewhere that would involve a longer drive (especially with these gas prices). It's a wash for me, as Owl Harbor and Folsom Lake are both 40 miles from my house. I would just miss my friends if I gave up Folsom Lake, and after 13 years in this club, I am pretty attached to them. As for getting a slip at Folsom Lake, I am still down around #425 on the waiting list, which moves at the rate of about 50 slips per year (you do the math).

Edited by - lcharlot on 10/21/2004 00:27:04

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 10/21/2004 : 07:37:09

All that Larry said is why I bit the bullet and bought the Suburban and trailer for osmeneo.

Edited by - on

tmhansen
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Response Posted - 10/23/2004 : 01:52:24

I followed the same path as Don Peet for the same reasons. Suburban 3/4T with 454. We drive it as little as possible but it sure is nice to drive on a road trip. Here in California we filled up the tank last week and the bill topped $100! We sold my Honda that got 43 mpg and could fill up for $10 to get the beast as we call it. Id love to get 17 mpg in town like the diesils but I don't want to wake up the neighborhood every time I go to work in the morning. All the college kids on my street tend to sleep in. Course I could just look at it as payback for their late nites

Edited by - on

OJ
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Response Posted - 11/07/2004 : 21:28:15

Can anyone comment on the attached?

I've always been told that an automatic transmission is better for towing - but I'm wondering if the manual tranny and clutch that is installed in a 1 ton isn't more "hefty" than what is installed in say, a 1/2t. This vehicle is rated to tow 12,000 pounds.

Though it has a lot of miles logged - it's a diesel and will be a third vehicle used only for towing OJ and the occasional trip to the lumber yard.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4500787308&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Edited by - OJ on 11/07/2004 21:29:25

OJ
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Response Posted - 11/07/2004 : 21:38:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tmhansen
 Id love to get 17 mpg in town like the diesils but I don't want to wake up the neighborhood every time I go to work in the morning . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, but I've heard that guys who drive diesels have high testosterone levels

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 11/07/2004 : 21:51:11

IMHO follows:

Aside from the 'ease of use' factor, I don't think an automatic is inherently better for towing... mostly it helps prevent an inept or inexperienced driver from abusing the clutch and rest of the drivetrain.

Many automatics are notorious for overheating and suffering other problems when towing heavy loads... not to mention the fuel mileage penalty... the price of having things easy.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
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Antigua and Barbuda
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Response Posted - 11/08/2004 : 01:21:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Can anyone comment on the attached?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OJ -
At 259,000 miles, the truck's transmission is probably on it's "last legs". Te truck in the ad has a New Venture Gear 4500 5-speed, same as I have in my Dodge Ram Cummins. It's a decent gearbox, but has a couple of bad (IMHO) design feature: the 5th gear retaining nut has a nasty tendency to work itself loose when heavily loaded, causing a certain 5th gear failure. It's especially bad on trucks that frequently tow large trailers. 5th gear should never be used below 1900 rpm when towing a trailer, in any GM or Dodge pickup truck equipped with a NVG-4500 transmission! The other bad design feature in the 4500 is that the synchronizers are made of carbon fiber, instead of bronze as in most manual tranny synchros, which makes this gearbox very sensitive to heat, and it requires a very special, VERY expensive proprietary lube oil - Castrol Syntorque LT, a GL-4 synthetic lubricant - that can only be purchased at GM or Dodge dealerships for $100 a gallon, or at a few specialty truck stores for maybe $50 a gallon. The gearbox takes about 9 pints, so you usually have to buy a full gallon, plus one additional quart to do an oil change. The carbon fiber synchros will overheat and self-destruct if the "regular" 90W140 hypoid gear oil is used, like what we used to use in older generation manual transmissions like the Borg-Warner T-18. The newer 6-speed NV-5600 used in the 2001-2004 Dodge Cummins (and Chevy?) trucks uses the traditional metallic synchros (bronze sintered onto a steel base ring). The NVG-5600 also uses a less expensive, more easily available lubricant.

As for the engine in the truck, it might have another 100K miles in it, or it might not - it all depends on how well it was cared for and if it was abused or not. However, even if the internal engine parts are still okay, if the high-pressure injection pump and injectors are still original, with 259K miles they are probably also on the verge of wearing out. In fact, most of these small diesels in the Ford, Dodge, and GM pickups have injection systems that are not designed to last more than about 150K miles, especially when used with the Federally mandated low sulfur fuel that is all you can get in most of the country now. The injectors and pumps in the big 18-wheeler semi-truck engines are much larger than the equivalent parts in a small pickup diesel, and can last a million miles or more since they have larget tolerances for wear by virtue of being bigger in the first place. Bottom line is that I would hesitate to buy any diesel pickup with that many miles on it, without any way of knowibng it's history of ownership and maintenance, especially for towing an 8000# sailboat and trailer. Better to spend maybe $16000 and get a truck with no more than 80K miles on it if you can find one. Always keep in mind that any diesel repair you end up having to do, like replacing the pump and injectors, will likely cost as much, if not more, than replacing an ENTIRE long block gas engine like a Ford 460 or Chevy 454. Diesels do save fuel, and they are better, stronger, and more heat tolerant for heavy towing, but the price of repairing them when the parts start to wear out is pretty steep. Good luck!

Edited by - on

OJ
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Response Posted - 11/14/2004 : 10:42:43

Wow Larry,

Thanks for the expert opinion. It sounds like I should stick to my original plan - an older gasser - say 3/4 to 1 ton.

I know the newer 350 ci engines no longer have the 4 bolt mains. Anyone know if the the big block 454 still has them?

Edited by - on

tmhansen
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Response Posted - 11/19/2004 : 02:08:22

OJ a little more data to help you decide. Our 99 3/4 ton Suburban has the 454. On average we get 9-12 mpg with mid grade fuel. With regular we get 8-10 mpg. Pulling the boat up to Monterey and back last week we got 8mpg. Most of the trip is flat but there is a large grade to pull up out of San Luis Obispo. Also we stopped several times on the way home so each time I got back on the freeway I had my foot in it for a few seconds each time. Even with the lousy mileage we find it does not pay to license and insure a third car. So we drive it as little as possible and enjoy it when we do use it. It will hold a full sheet of plywood with the doors closed and it can hold 8 pretty comforably with room for gear in the back still. We used it to haul a refrigerator and 4 people earlier this year. On our vacation this summer we could seat 5 and still have all 4 of our bikes in the back locked up inside the truck.

Edited by - on

stampeder
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Response Posted - 11/19/2004 : 11:48:00

I just bought a GMC 2000 Sierra 3/4 ton 4X4 Gas long box extended cab with tow package, automatic, its 20ft long...I towed La Barca from Bellingham over to Vanc Island with ease. Not a long haul but the package felt comfortable at 60MPH on the freeway and being passed by semis didn't cause any issues.
The ramp I launched from was extremely steep but the truck had no problem. As I'm new to C25s and towing a trailer of this size, during the decision making process I paid particular attention to all threads related to towing. I can now say with confidence that I made the right decision on both the boat and the land tug.
I had to drive 1,000 KM (650 miles) from Calgary to Bellingham to pick up La Barca then the same distance back after launch and an all too brief inaugural sail. It cost me $80 to fill the tank and about $100 to make it 1,000KM. When towing, I guessed it was approx double the fuel consumption. La Barca is now moored on the island but I had to drive back through the mountains, encountering snow, rain, sleet and lunatic semi drivers, two of whom ended up in the ditch.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
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Response Posted - 11/19/2004 : 13:36:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tmhansen
 Even with the lousy mileage we find it does not pay to license and insure a third car.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I came to the same conclusion recently. Diesel fuel has been fluctuating between $2.20~$2.40 gallon for the last several months here, which means it costs almost $100 to fill my truck every couple of weeks. But if I were to buy a small car - even the cheapest ones are $12K now - the loan payment, DMV fees, and insurance would cost at least 50% more than the cost of putting fuel in my truck. Now if fuel was $5.00+/gallon like it is in most of Europe, it would be a different story; I would probably put the boat in a slip, put the truck and trailer in "non-op" status to avoid DMV fees (or maybe just sell them), and get a Toyota Prius (45 mpg) or a VW Golf TDI (50 mpg). Actually, you gan't buy any of the VW's with a TDI engine in California, at least not this year or last (grumble, grumble).

Anyway, I ran the numbers, comparing the cost of ownership and operation of my '98 Dodge 3/4 ton Cummins diesel truck (which is all paid for), compared to a Toyota Prius, and it looks like it would take almost 250K miles (at $2.5/gallon) for the fuel savings in the Prius to offset it's $22K purchase price. And I really question whether it's realistic to get 250K miles out of any small econobox car, let alone one of these newfangled "hybrids" with all that technology that is so "new" that no one can really say with authority how long the car will actually last. Especially the proprietary NIMH battery pack, which has been reported to cost around $3K ~ $5K to replace if it croaks past the warranty period.
I cringe every time the low-fuel warning light come on in the truck, knowing that I'll have to shell out another $80 to fill the tank, but at least I don't have a $350/month car payment!

Edited by - on

OJ
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Response Posted - 11/26/2004 : 23:07:06

Okay knowledgable light truck owners . . . compared to a 1/2t, I know my 3/4t had larger brakes and wheels, stronger frame, suspension and rear axle. Does the 1 ton (non-dually) simply have heavier springs than the 3/4t?
Since I'd be towing a C25 (as opposed to carrying heavy loads,) is a 1 ton real overkill?

Also, manual verses automatic transmissions - again. I thought the reason an automatic was better for towing was the torque converter (turbine blades-fluid-turbine blades (terms?)) would slip when the transmission was, say, over exerted. Once the manual transmission is engaged, the clutch won't slip (unless it's worn.) Isn't the lack of slipping harder on shafts, gears and bearings? Or, do I simply have no clue of what I'm talking about

Edited by - OJ on 11/27/2004 21:04:50

ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 11/27/2004 : 00:53:02

One ton rigs can have varying levels of difference from their 3/4 ton siblings (aside from just heavier springs). Brakes, front axles, rear axles, even frames... (etc) can change with load ratings and the options chosen. There can be capacity overlap between a heavy-duty equipped 3/4 ton and a 'vanilla' one ton.

"...slip when the transmission was, say, over exterted..."

The slippage built into an automatic is not really there to be an 'overload' protection per se. It provides smooth, automatic starts and shifts... which in turn helps to prevent an overly-enthusiastic, inexperienced or inept driver from abusing the drivetrain (transmission, driveline, clutch, axles etc) via jerky clutch operation, missed shifts ... (mostly shock loading)

Unfortunately, automatics also produce extra 'waste' heat that can be destructive if not properly controlled... which requires extra radiator area or even the addition of a seperate transmission cooler. In the old days, the smell of burning transmission fluid was pretty common on long uphill grades. The heat generated translates also turns into lost mileage, you can pretty well figure on giving up between 2 and 5 mpg with the auto.

IMHO Advice: Bottom line if you're not good with a clutch, (or reckon you will be good with one) get the automatic. If you have good 'mechanical feel' and enjoy the control of driving a stick shift, get the manual.

IMHO: A well-equipped (think towing package) long-wheelbase 3/4 ton will do just fine... and may even tow better than a minimally equipped 'one ton' with a shorter wheelbase. Lots of factors come into play... engine choice, wheelbase, rear-end ratios, 2WD vs 4WD, sway-bars....

Edited by - on

lcharlot
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Response Posted - 11/27/2004 : 10:09:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 Does the 1 ton (non-dually) simply have heavier springs than the 3/4t?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The Ford and Dodge 1-tons have thicker, stronger frame rails than the 3/4 tonners. I don't know if the GM trucks do, but it seems likely. The 1-ton also has larger brakes, a stronger draiveshaft with heavier-duty U-joints, and a higher capacity cooling system. They might also have a heavier-duty rear axle.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Since I'd be towing a C25 (as opposed to carrying heavy loads,) is a 1 ton real overkill?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have towed both of the C-25's I've owned about 10,000 miles total since 1998 with my 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins diesel, which is a regular cab, 2WD, long bed. The truck has always performed flawlessly, but if I were to buy a new one today, I would probably get a 1-ton, non-dually, to get the larger brakes and heavier driveshaft. The most important thing for towing a Catalina 25 safely I think is for the tow vehicle to have a long wheelbase for stability, to resist jackknifing in a panic stop situation. A mid-size SUV might have enough rated towing capacity to pull a Catalina 25, but it's short wheelbase will make it wiggle all over the freeway in a crosswind.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Also, manual verses automatic transmissions - again. I thought the reason an automatic was better for towing was the torque converter
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If you are talking about the "regular" automatic transmissions that Ford and Dodge use, I would say that "no way" is it better to have the automatic for towing, especially if the truck is a diesel. IMHO, The manual transmissions in the Ford and Dodge diesel pickups are much stronger and will probably give double the service life of the automatics. As for the Chevy with the Duramax Diesel, the new Allison automatic is said to have been developed specifically for diesel service, so it might be a good, durable transmission. However, since both the Duramax engine and the Allison transmission are fairly new (last two model years, I think), they have no "history" built up from which to judge their long-term reliability.

At the risk of sounding like a Chrysler employee, which I am not, I am firmly convinced that the all-around best heavy duty tow vehicle for a Catalina 25 is the Dodge 1-ton (non-dually) pickup with the high output Cummins diesel and the NVG-5600 6-speed manual transmission. I like the Cummins becasue it is an in-line 6, instead of a V-8, which makes it easier to work on (for routine maintenance like oil and filter changes). It also has a gear-drive valve train instead of a chain or belt, and no glow plugs (more reliable).
Second choice is the Ford F-350 Diesel with a 6-speed manual trans or the Chevy Duramax Diesel with the 6-speed manual trans. Unless there have been recent changes in equipment, the Dodge and Chevy diesels both use the New Venture Gear 5600 transmission (made in US), and the Ford diesel has a 6-speed supplied by ZF (made in Germany)

Edited by - on

Gloss
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Response Posted - 11/28/2004 : 07:31:26

Hey Larry,
How do you know so much about trucks? I'm impressed.

I was looking at a Dodge Cummins Diesel the other day. Maybe you can comment on the following thing which this guy told me, you never know when a salesman is lying to you (maybe they are ex lawyers)

He said that if you buy a Dodge Cummins diesel you want to buy a 2003 or newer, as they made some kind of changes which made the engines quieter.

A friend said that he also heard that GM bought out Cummins, and they now refuse to sell engines to Dodge, so Dodge is now buying their engines from Japan (I wonder if it is Yanmar?)

From what you are telling us about prices and taxes in California I'm kinda glad to live in Tennessee. How do you have any money left over after all you are taxed to buy a loaf of bread? Isn't socialism great?

Have a gread day my friend

Edited by - on

gracer
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Response Posted - 11/28/2004 : 08:41:07

I agree with AT Ease. My marina charges $10.00 per foot for winter storage with a trailer, $18.00 per foot w/o trailer and the boat needs to be shored up.This price includes taking the boat out in the fall and puting it back in next spring. My trailer stays at the marina.

Bob

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ClamBeach
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Response Posted - 11/28/2004 : 11:20:06

"... 2003 or newer, as they made some kind of changes which made the engines quieter."

I belive that in 2003 Cummins made a change in the injection sequence to pre-inject a small amount of fuel ahead of the main charge... that reduces the 'rattle' of the main combustion load.

"GM bought out Cummins, and they now refuse to sell engines to Dodge"

AFAIK, Cummins is owned by Ford. I don't think there's any sort of 'refusal to sell'... but eventually Dodge may be forced to abandon the Cummins engine to compete with the effeciencies (power/weight/mileage) offered by the newer engine technologies. The original Cummins design goes back nearly 50 years or so. Wise thing to abandon such a proven design? Dunno.

"How do you have any money left over..."

It's somewhat relative... wages are much higher here too.

"after all you are taxed to buy a loaf of bread?"

You don't pay sales tax on foodstuffs.

"Isn't socialism great?"

Dunno, California is hardly 'socialist'... It's a large, complex state dominated by two concentrated urban centers... complex infrastructure, lots of immigrants. California faces a very different set of problems than Tennessee.

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