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An apology & Gennaker setup hints request

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Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Initially Posted - 10/19/2004 : 19:07:20

(Originally posted on the 250 forum)

Surprisingly (for this group at least), nobody felt like answering my original post on this topic after a week. I guess I've annoyed everyone with too many questions or just sounded ignorant on the earlier posting about this topic.

If I've offended anyone it was not intentional, and offer an apology to anyone who was.

<hr noshade size="1">
I am adding a gennaker to my inventory in the off season & could use a bit of advice regardng hardware selection and some technical points:

Tack Downhaul: Best way to lead line to cockpit from bow to cockpit (bullseye fairlead vs. over-top lead block)

Snap shackles on sheet & tack lines: good/bad, recommended model & size

Any other handy hints or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks
<hr noshade size="1"> EDIT: title revised at suggestion of Buzz.

Jeff McK
Formerly Event Horizon (sold)
C250 WK #805

Edited by - Jeff McK on 10/20/2004 10:13:16

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2004 : 19:37:10

Hey Jeff, I'd have replied but I don't know nuttin' 'bout settin' up spinnakers.

Steve

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 10/19/2004 : 20:04:39

Hi Jeff,

I don't know anything about spinnakers either, but I seem to recall that Duane Wolff knows a LOT. With any luck, Duane will see this thread and post some ideas for you.

If he doesn't, I think I printed a hard copy of Duane's ideas ... I can look for it and then see if I can find his post in the archives ... I'll post a link when/if I do.

Good luck!

edit: I found the thread, and it's a good thing ... Duane would never want to write this again ... it is the MOTHER of all replies! Check it out: [url="http://www.catalina25-250.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4244&SearchTerms=spinnaker"]Spinnakers[/url]

Edited by - Buzz Maring on 10/19/2004 20:33:34

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2004 : 08:21:39

Buzz,

Thanks for the thread (Nice job, Duane). As I'm just using an asymmetrical sail some of the content is not relevant to me, but a lot is helpful. I looked in the archives for Asymmetrical, Drifters, & Gennakers but nothing came up (operator error?). I saw Arlyn's tech tips section, but could not figure out the particular details I was seeking.

Congrats on your MMC rank.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2004 : 09:44:47

Hi Jeff,

Now that I've reread your post I realize that both Steve and I zeroed in on your subject line with "spinnaker" in it ... a gennaker is much simpler. I just bought a 170 drifter/gennaker, but I haven't used it yet ... so what follows is only my speculation at the moment.

As Frank Hopper pointed out in another thread, a gennaker is just like a huge headsail ... that's the approach I'm taking. I was planning to use 1/4" line for sheets, and I don't plan to use shackles (simple/cheap/less weight). As for a dousing line, I plan to use 3/16" line attached to the luff near one of the topmost hanks, thread it through lower hanks, down through a small block that is already installed on my bow pulpit, then thread it through the bottom of the lifeline stanchions back to the cockpit. It won't be fancy, but I hope it will at least work ... I'll work the bugs out later if I don't like it.

Again, I've never even tried any of the above, so I hope that others will see this thread and set me straight. I don't know for sure, but I suspect there might be more people who use a gennaker/drifter than a spinnaker ... so, maybe you could edit the subject line of your post to say "gennaker" instead of "spinnaker" ... 'just a thought.

'Hope that helps a little ... good luck!

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2004 : 10:22:02

Buzz,

Thanks for the idea on changing the topic name (done). I came into a bunch of 3/16" Sta-set X line (100 ft of red for the sheets, 25" of green for the tack) at a dirt cheap price. It's supposed to be very light even if wet. Guess I'll find out later. Mine will have a snuffer so won't need a dousing line. Sounds like there are many variations of how to do this, so more input is always welcome.

Now if some wise & talented person can advise me on leading the tack line to the cockpit ...

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2004 : 14:49:13

Well, I have a 25, so I don't know what your bow looks like. For my cruising spinnaker (I assume the gennaker is essentially the same-no hanks) I had to put a small extension out from the bow to keep the tack pennant from interferring with the roller furling drum. On that I put a small block, clipped another block to the base of the forward-most stanchion and then straight back to a cam cleat mounted on the cabin side near the cockpit.

I don't use shackles for the pennant or the sheets. These sails are usually flown in lighter air and the weight of the snap shackle will pull the sail down and out of shape. With that said, now I contradict myself

. I have two sets of sheets 3/16" for light air and 3/8" for heavier air. Two tack pennants to match.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2004 : 15:06:03

Jeff, at first blush it appears that you are not realizing what people are telling you, "Lead it back throught the stanchion bases", etc. But the truth is you sail a 250 and you have no stink'n deck! I would investigate the rubrail assembly, determine the best way to connect fairleads to it, (Clamp, screw, whatever) and then place a small harken camcleat with a bullseye fairlead on the outside of the coaming just above the rubrail. Worst case scenario would be to mount fairleads that match the Harken unit to the hull just at the top of the rubrail using self tapping screws. There will be no force on them so there would be no need to through bolt them. It lookks like you will compromise your coaming step, pick the side you do not board from.

Or... find a small cheekblock that you can mount at the front of your cabintop to make the transition from the lower foredeck to the cabintop. Use regular stanchion based fairleads (rollerfurling type) and mount your cam or clam cleat at the winch area.

Or use no fairleads, tie a large rock to the end of the downhaul, just lay the line along the top of the boat and back to your cockpit, when you want to drop the sail simply cast off the halyard and throw the rock over the side, the sail will come down!

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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1709 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2004 : 15:20:00

Jeff,

I'm assuming you mean cruising spinnaker since I don't believe a tack line is used with a gennaker. To attach the tack line, I used three fair leads attached to the bottom of the stancions and run from a jamb cleat on the cockpit coaming, to a 2" turning block on the stem fitting. I believe the line is 1/4". I also have a snuffer so I don't have a dousing line. The lead blocks, turning block, and cam cleat all came from West Marine. The tack line and sheets were supplied by the sail loft that built my sail. Make sure your sheets are long enough to extend around the outside of the headstay (about 50 feet long), and are light weight (1/4"). I use plastic shakles from West Marine to attach the sheets since it's faster when racing then tying a knot and are fairly light weight. You will also need a cleat of some type to attach the snuffer lines when it is raised. I used two set-ups, one with a cleat that attached to the shrouds, and one with the cleat attached to the mast. I discarded the former because the jib/spinnaker sheets kept hanging up on it.

OK, that's it. Hope this helps some.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 10/20/2004 : 16:00:27

I did in fact, as my last line of the original post states right this up for the website and believe its posted in the tech tips.

However - I too know very little about gennakers/asyms. You might want to consider talking to or emailing Gary Bruner.

I too would have gladly replied if I new a little more about their set-up
dw

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 10/21/2004 : 08:14:39

Thanks to all for the hints.

Frank, I think you are closest to what I was considering. Because of the foredeck layout (or lack thereof) consisting chiefly of two hatches I really don't have much working area. Boring into the hatches seems like a bad idea overall.

The rock idea sound easy, but won't that beat up the deck?

A friend of mine (Cal 36) looked at all the excellent input & suggested the following setup (comments welcome):

1. Attach the turning block for the tack line as John suggested
2. Install a bullseye fairlead w/metal insert at the front edge of the cabin top above the windows. The angle & load is not going to be that great there so a block really isn't needed.
3. Change the main halyard turning block on the cabin top to a double & run the line aft from the bullseye to a spinlock (doubling up the single on the starboard side). That way it'll be reachable from the cockpit, plus if I add a true spinnaker later I can use this for the halyard.
4. Mount 2 smallish spring-loaded sheet turning blocks (much as Arlyn did) low on the stern pulpits.
5. Put a cam-cleat with fairlead loops (Harken) near each coaming top edge above the seating area for the sheet lines.

Al: North Sails has a CD that suggests tying off the snuffer control lines on a forward docking cleat. or the bow pulpit base. Hopefully that will be OK when I gybe the sail, but if not I'll give your mast-mounted cleat a try. I didn't see the plastic shackles in th WM catalog but will look again.

Edited by - Jeff McK on 10/21/2004 08:27:05

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