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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Outboard Motor Selection

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adamb
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/01/2004 : 16:04:54

I need to replace my 9.9 Johnson Sailmaster after 20 yrs. I like the idea of an engin that is not too heavy - so am thinking of a 6 HP 4 stroke with a long shaft. Will this work - i.e. will it have enough thrust to move the boat for several hours at 4 or 5 knots?

Norwegian Blue
Jacksonville, FL
1984 Standard Rig, Fixed Keel, Traditional Layout

Edited by - on

Brooke Willson
Admiral

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USA
983 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2004 : 16:25:25

In a lake, probably. In open water with currents, bigger seas, and higher winds, probably not.

Brooke

Edited by - on

dgabel
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2004 : 16:26:43

I have a 9.9 Nissan that has plenty of power to move the boat. However, a friend has a 23-ft. Benetau, and runs a 6-hp Yamaha engine on it. That engine has lots of power for that boat, which is, I suspect, only about 500 - 700 pounds lighter than our Catalina 25s.

Dave Gabel
'79 tall rig, fixed keel
Sail 1484

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2004 : 19:46:43

First, I suspect the Beneteau 23.5 is about half or less the displacement of a C-25.

Generally, 8hp engines push C-25s at 5-5.5 knots at around half to 2/3 throttle, depending on the engine. I would expect a 6hp to do it at 3/4 throttle. The hitch is that I have not seen a 6 (or 2-stroke 8-9.9) with longer than a 20" shaft, and in any substantial chop, that'll leave the prop sucking air a good part of the time. You can probably make forward progress that way, but it's noisy and stressful on the engine, bracket, and captain. Also, the 6 will give you less stopping, backing, and maneuvering power around a dock or launching ramp.

So, a lot depends on what kind of water you're usually in. Many Sailmasters have 25" shafts... The 8hp 4-strokes all offer 25-28" shafts. 2-stroke 8s generally don't. If you motor in flat water only, check your shaft length (mounting board top to anticavitation plate) and, if it's 25", visualize what 5" less length will do in terms of keeping the plate under the surface.

Nissan's 9.8 4-stroke is nominally 82 lbs, but with the 25" shaft (adding 10" of driveshaft, shift shaft, and casing), it's probably over 90, and electric start probably puts it close to 100.

There, does that help any?

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 11/01/2004 : 21:50:16

adamb:

I switched my 15hp 2 stroke 90-100 lbs Mariner for a 6hp 4 stroke 55 lbs Tohatsu 2 years ago and I'm very happy with the decision. Dave's right about the speed, 3/4 throttle will get you 5 knots all day long. At that speed you'll only consume about a gallon of gas every 4 hours.

With regards to maneuvering around the docks, I find that the 6hp is plenty as I never try to bring her in the slip at hull speed. I can easily back up with a 20 knot tail wind with the engine barely above idle. The 15hp wasn't any better.

The actual shaft length of the long shaft Tohatsu 6hp is 23". I can't speak to how this will work in rough ocean conditions as I'm on a fresh water lake. But it's the largest lake in NC with dozens of very large motor boats (50'+) and rough weather putting up sizable waves. In the worst conditions I've never had the prop come out of the water. Not trying to counter what Dave is saying, it's just that it hasn't been my experience on a lake.

The biggest benefit to me is the 55 lbs weight. I don't have to beef up my transom, I don't have to install a heavy duty motor lift, I can lift it out of the water easily, sailing is better and I can pull off my motor at the end of the season with one hand. I damn near busted a gut pulling off the 15hp!

Edited by - on

adamb
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2004 : 09:54:22

Thanks to everybody for their input - I have chosen to repair my Sailmaster 9.9 with its 25" shaft

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2004 : 10:52:33

Hey Adam...just went through a similar scenario with my '93 Johnson that behaved beautifully through it all but was having labor pains this season. Searched the posts here and elseware and decided on the Nissan 9.9 4 stroke coming in at a very good price @$1800 +-. Then took another look at the ole Johnson and after much mucking about found that there was some kind of corruption between the MTBE oxygenator used in New York for awhile and their switch over to ethanol. The effect was to reduce the engine's reliability...like you're approaching the dock and slow to make your entrance and the engine goes BLAAAAAA, and the dock goes UNHHHHK. And I go looking for another engine.

PS the cleaning of the tank and carb bowl had the ole "J" purring as usual.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2004 : 12:53:33

Ethanol is causing huge problems in boats, including inboards and 225 hp 2-stroke outboards--not just our little ones... One problem is that it disolves crud and water that may have accumulated in your tank, hoses, and even filters, and carries it through to the carburator (or at least to the filter in the engine), where it gums things up. I've been warned to rinse out the fuel tank and empty the hose at least as part of the winterizing routine. Empty the tank (not into your car!), put another half-gallon or so of fresh gas in it, and then empty it again. I empty mine (with a coffee filter in a funnel) into the can I use for the lawn mower--those B/S engines can burn anything. To empty the hose, you have to depress and hold the ball valve on the connector.

Edited by - on

adamb
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 11/07/2004 : 21:54:22

well - just spent $350 getting the 2 stroke 9.9 1984 Johnson Sailmaster back up to scratch - including new switch for the electronic start.

Now am working the issue of the blown bushings on the OEM engin mount - have read a lot on other postings and have concluded that the 16 inch vertical lift on the OEM is key - especially with the 25" shaft on my sailmaster -

So am planning to go to Catalina Direct and spend the $230 for a new one --
PS - anybody know how much the old J 2 stoke 9.9 with at 25" shaft weighs?

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2004 : 22:26:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by adamb
 
...PS - anybody know how much the old J 2 stoke 9.9 with at 25" shaft weighs?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I'll guess 85 lbs. The new Garhauer bracket should work just fine--it has more lifting power than the original unit.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/08/2004 22:27:18

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/08/2004 : 22:36:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by adamb
 ...Now am working the issue of the blown bushings on the OEM engine mount - have read a lot on other postings and have concluded that the 16 inch vertical lift on the OEM is key - especially with the 25" shaft on my sailmaster...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I installed replacement bushings in my original Garhauer mount a season or two ago and it works fine.

Edited by - dlucier on 11/08/2004 22:56:45

adamb
1st Mate

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USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 11/10/2004 : 21:35:11

Just got the new Motor mount from Garhauer (3 spring) and am putting my 9.9 J Sailmasaster on it this weekend -

I want to do the Sandwitch to prevent oil canning.

I have bought 1/2 "marine Lumber" fro West Marine.

My thought is to put a 12" wide by 14" long piece of the marine lumber on the outside of the stern and then put on the inside a 3/4" piece of varnished sand ply on the inside measuring 12" by 14" as well - and place the inside piece right above the little shelf in the back of the quarter birth.

Thoughts / Comments ?

And do I need to fill the slight gap between the cabin liner (1/4" or less) and the Hull at the stern - or will the elastic nature of the plywood over time sort of bend appropriately?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2004 : 10:43:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by adamb
 Just got the new Motor mount from Garhauer (3 spring) and am putting my 9.9 J Sailmasaster on it this weekend -

I want to do the Sandwitch to prevent oil canning.

I have bought 1/2 "marine Lumber" fro West Marine.

My thought is to put a 12" wide by 14" long piece of the marine lumber on the outside of the stern and then put on the inside a 3/4" piece of varnished sand ply on the inside measuring 12" by 14" as well - and place the inside piece right above the little shelf in the back of the quarter birth.

Thoughts / Comments ?

And do I need to fill the slight gap between the cabin liner (1/4" or less) and the Hull at the stern - or will the elastic nature of the plywood over time sort of bend appropriately?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Several of us have used Star-Board for the reinforcement. Go here and you will see what I did. (scroll down)
[url="http://homepage.mac.com/fhopper/PhotoAlbum63.html"]projects link[/url]

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2004 : 19:10:11

A friend of mine has a Yamaha 8hp 4 stroker with electric start, electric tilt, 10 amp alternator, and high thrust prop for her C25. I have another friend who bought one for his C&C 23. Both are exstatic about this motor. My old back likes the idea of the electric tilt. I have to stick with my Evinrude for a while though. I'm trying to save for a roller furler. The Yamaha is definately on my list of upgrades.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2004 : 20:51:02

I’ve owned:
1. Ancient Yamaha 2 stroke 9.9
2. Honda 9 4 stroke
3. New Yamaha T8
I’ve loved 2 of these motors. Cursed one of them. You can probably figure out what I like.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/11/2004 : 23:22:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by adamb
 My thought is to put a 12" wide by 14" long piece of the marine lumber on the outside of the stern and then put on the inside a 3/4" piece of varnished sand ply on the inside measuring 12" by 14" as well - and place the inside piece right above the little shelf in the back of the quarter birth.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
IMHO, 3/4" on the inside is too stiff. 1/4" or 3/8" ply with fender washers will spread the load without overstressing the interior liner. Make the corners round, bevel them a little, and don't get it too close to the outside corner. The "marine lumber" is Starboard--a great solution for the outside. You can work it with normal woodworking tools, including power saws and sanders. I extended it well below the bracket, which is where the stress will go outside. All told, you'll have enough strength for more than your Sailmaster.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/11/2004 23:23:34

adamb
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
39 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 22:26:02

i am now ready to get the new 3 spring from CD motor mount installed with 1/2 in starboard on the outside and inside. Am thinking of using Bondo to fill in the gap between the inside liner and the hull -
any one used Bondo in the marine envirnment?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 11/21/2004 : 23:01:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by adamb
 i am now ready to get the new 3 spring from CD motor mount installed with 1/2 in starboard on the outside and inside. Am thinking of using Bondo to fill in the gap between the inside liner and the hull -
any one used Bondo in the marine envirnment?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bond company makes a marine Bondo. I would not bother though, I had some oil canning and I did not fair it.

Edited by - on

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