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Higher jib foot attachment?

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Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/13/2004 : 18:01:50

Took a well-seasoned sailor (who also used to rig sailboats for a dealer)out on Wind Point today and he suggested that instead of my headsail tack (no roller furler) being attached at deck level, I should add hardware that will raise it a foot or two up the forestay so it will raise the jib foot, grab more air and not hang up as much on the bow rail.

Most of the non-roller headsails I've seen on C25s have been attached to the bow hardware right at deck level. Would appreciate any comments on the benefits/negatives of having the headsail foot attached a bit higher on the forestay.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve Madden
'87 WK #5668 "Lorica"
Fort Myers, FL

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RoofRoof
Navigator

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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2004 : 18:44:55

I simply use a loop of line to tie between the tack and the tack shackle. This raises the jib approx. a foot and a half.

The best part is, that I can see below me and avoid traffic. Second, there is better wind up higher, and third the sail shape isn't as affected by the bow pulpit.

Being able to see the bogies is most important.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2004 : 19:50:57

Steve,

I use a method very similar to what RoofRoof described. My variation relieves the foot tension on the lowest hank. After determining how high I want to fly the tack, I tie a loop of small (maybe 1/4") line around the forestay a couple of inches longer than twice the desired pendant length. This loop stays tied, and doesn't get removed with the sail. To bend on the jib, I stuff a doubled over 'corner' of the loop through the tack cringle, and pull as much of the loop as possible through, so that the tack is tight to the forestay at the knot in the loop. I then attach the pulled through part of the loop to the tack shackle at the bow fitting. This is about as fast and easy as just shackling the sail directly to the bow fitting.

An alternative method of directing foot tension to the tack, is to install a heavy duty hank, carabiner, or other sturdy hook through the tack cringle. The hook gets snapped onto the forestay. Then use a short length or loop of line from the tack to the bow fitting, as RoofRoof described. This variation allows you the option of attaching a different length pendant to each headsail you use.

One caveat here is that the foot tension (under any of these methods) will be applied to a point on the forestay, not at the bow fitting. This isn't good for the forestay, although I've seen it done a lot, and I haven't heard of it causing any failures (yet).

-- Leon Sisson

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5935 Posts

Response Posted - 11/13/2004 : 19:51:44

It seems to me that there are as many pros as cons to the idea. As I recall, the 150% genoa goes almost to the top of the mast, so there's not enough room to raise the tack very much. You could raise the foot of the 110% jib, but that sail is intended for use in stronger winds, so it would seem to be counterproductive to raise it higher, because, in doing so, you would also be raising the center of effort of the sailplan, and that would increase the boat's tendency to heel, which is the opposite of what you want to do with a sail that is used in stronger winds.

Speaking as one who is still regularly using two jibs that are 24 years old, I can say that rubbing on the bow pulpit doesn't hurt a sail.

Racers usually want the sail to sweep the deck, because they can get more sail area without any added handicap. There has long been a theory that a deck-sweeping headsail has an "end-plate effect" that increases the power of the sail. That theory is currently being disputed. The countervailing theory is that the end-plate actually creates drag along the foot of the sail, reducing the sail's power. Who knows which theory is correct! (but almost all racers are still using deck-sweeping headsails.)

Cruisers who sail in big seas usually prefer to have the foot of the sail cut higher, because sometimes a big wave can break on the bow of the boat and the weight and force of the wave can rip the sail. If the sail is cut higher, the wave is more likely to pass under the foot of the sail.

Personally, I sail on an inland lake and will continue attaching my sail without an extension. If I wasn't a frequent racer and usually sailed in big, rough seas (you shouldn't be doing that much anyway in a C25), I would consider raising the tack of the sail a little.

I should say that I do have a pennant on my storm jib that raises the tack about 12-15." If the conditions are such that you have to resort to a storm jib, you'll be in some serious waves, and those are just the kind of waves that can break on the bow and rip a low setting jib.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 11/13/2004 20:00:24

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2004 : 12:44:30

Thanks guys for the input. The 110% was up when the discussion was taking place and you're right Steve, there is plenty of room to raise it up the forestay. I hadn't considered though how much taller the larger headsail would be and will have to hank it on to see. Good point.

Leon - The tack doesn't attach to the forestay now when using the bow fitting, only the hanks do. So, if there is a solid connector between the bow fitting and a raised tack (shackles and wire maybe), is it necesary to attach the tack to the forestay as you suggested? Wouldn't the tension be less on the forestay if the tack wasn't attached directly to it?

RoofRoof, having some forward vision under the jib seems reason enough alone to give it a try.

Thanks,

Steve

Edited by - on

Tony Dillon
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2004 : 13:05:58

Steve,

We have a wire pendent made up with thimbles that we use on Mental Floss. We don't have an problem getting a full hoist with our 135. It is nice having a little more forward vision and keeps the foot of the sail off the pulpit. It does raise the center of effort slightly, but we don't have any problem getting balance.

I will go out to the boat in a little bit and measure the length of our pendents.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2004 : 13:11:44

"Wouldn't the tension be less on the forestay if the tack wasn't attached directly to it?"

I think the Leon's concern isn't tension on the forestay, but the load on the bottom hank as it gets more aftward pull... as the top of the pendant will be pulled aftward from the forestay a bit. Fastening the clew/pendant to the forestay reduces load on the bottom hank.

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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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1893 Posts

Response Posted - 11/14/2004 : 16:37:00

Regarding load on lowest hank, yeah, what ClamBeach said.

Think about how much tension is on a heavily loaded jib sheet. Picture the percentage of that tension which is normally applied to the bow fitting through the tack cringle. Without the tack attached to the bow fitting or forestay, most of that load is shifted to the lowest hank. If you try this in light air, you'll likely see the strain and distortion in the sail at the lowest hank. I've seen sails on other boats tear at the hank because of this.

-- Leon Sisson

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