Association Forum - GPS Survey

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

GPS Survey

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

Todd Frye
Navigator

Member Avatar

USA
222 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/06/2004 : 14:11:03

Dave’s recent post on his new WINTER TOY, (Happy B-day Dave), has lots of great info on the GPS. In a past post, I recall someone talking about an “anchor dragging alarm”…an out-dated feature of an older model GPS. This seems like a great option. Would those of you who are as fascinated with this impressive toy, care to elaborate on what GPS you have and what features you find most useful? For that matter, what are the negative attributes as well? Thank you. Todd Frye

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2004 : 15:12:09

Thanks, Todd... The Garmin 276C has the anchor drag alarm, so it's not an outdated feature. I haven't used the unit on the water yet--just on the road. But a friend with a big fixed-mount Garmin chartplotter was very impressed. BTW, when WAAS is active, the acuracy indicated on the screen is 12 feet, which is probably conservative.

Edited by - on

ilnadi
Captain

Members Avatar

452 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2004 : 15:24:02

We just got a Garmin60C and it's been on the water a few times. We are still learning how to navigate with it but so far it is very useful (once I took it out of "use highways" mode

; you should have seen the route it drew to sail across the Neuse river).

So far mostly we use it for speed and to look up nav marks. SInce we are not very familiar with the area yet, it is nice to lookup what navmark is in front of us.

The color display is nice too and yes, you can read it in sunlight.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2004 : 19:20:36

I just got the Magellon FX324 color chart plotter. I've only used it in my truck so far but it pin-pointed me at around 10 feet. It has a lot of menus for features that I may never use however. The screen is bright and readable in the sun. The colors are nifty. The map of the US scales down to a level that would work for coastal cruising but you really need the Map Send Blu Nav chart chips for more detailed information. They're $140 a pop - for only half of Lake Superior.I'm planning on buying them though since I almost ran into an island last summer in a thiiiiiiiiick fog. It will work in lieu of radar.

Al3
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

Members Avatar

672 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2004 : 19:51:17

The basic Raymarine ST 60 series has it all...depth (shallow and deep alarm), speed, water temp, anchor alarm, trip log, boat lot, etc. Can be stand alone or fully integrated, and remote controls. Work fine.

Edited by - on

frankr
Captain

Members Avatar

256 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2004 : 20:07:15

I just got a GPSMAP 76 ( $50 factory rebate on now). It was a quantum leap forward from my old 2000XL. At least now I wouldn't loose waypoints when the batteries run out. It supposedly floats - haven't tried it yet. The included nav aids charts are really neat. First time I used it, I said to the the Admiral "look here is the channel marker on the screen" and wow there it was on the starboard side. Anchor drag is great - punch in how far you want your circle of security to extend and hope the batteries last all nite. The tracking feature shows how straight a course you are holding. If you go to the Garmin web site most of the manuals can be downloaded - so you can see what features and options the various models have.

Edited by - frankr on 12/07/2004 18:54:44

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2004 : 20:22:01

I have a Garmin eTrex Mariner handheld and it has served me well. With its navigational aids database, my handheld provides me with all the pertinent data I need and it fits in my shirt pocket, but I sure do like those color chartplotters.

Quite honestly, I use my compass more than I use my GPS, and I sail by eye the other 99 percent of the time. Generally, when I'm just out day sailing and staying within 15-20 miles of home, I use landmarks, which are ever present, to guide me home. On my last cruise in unfamiliar open waters, I sailed mainly from navaid-to-navaid using my charts and compass, picking up buoys with my binoc's as I went along. Yeah, I could've just turned on the GPS (which I did anyway) to get me within 20ft of my next waypoint, but even with the GPS on, I still sighted the buoys with my binocs at the farthest distance possible.

Still, I keep my handheld GPS near and when I hit the lotto, I'll buy a color chartplotter (and radar

), but for now, I'm good.

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2004 : 21:36:25

I've got the Garmin 176C. The chart detail is fantastic. It does have an anchor drag alarm which is very handy if you're anchored somewhere where you can set an alarm distance that won't go off when you swing in the middle of the night, but is still close enough so you won't be on shore before it goes off. The ability to backtrack on your exact course is also handy for those anchorages that are a bit tricky to get into. I would like to get charting software so I can download tracks & edit to save as future routes.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2004 : 23:36:25

I also have the Garmin 176C. Great unit. The anchor drag alarm woke me up last February while anchored in the Keys and saved me from being aground when the anchor gave way in a higher wind.
the Bluechart chips are great. I have found anchorages in the middle of the night. It also has tide functions for about 60 locations in the Keys. I use mine plugged into a 12 volt socket, with 4 AA batteries inside too.
The newer 276C looks like the same unit, but with Lithium ion batteries.
I want a backup GPS for when I sail to the Tortugas next year, but I don't think I'll like anything less. I'm spoiled.
Before I get flamed for not knowing how to plot a course, I'm taking Piloting and Seamanship starting in January.

Get the 176C, or 276C. End of discussion in my humble opinion. The first time you find an anchorage, or channel in the dark, you will be glad you did.

Edited by - on

Douglas
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1595 Posts

Response Posted - 12/06/2004 : 23:59:10

I have an old Garmin 48. I have had it so long I cant remember when I got it. It has the drag alarm (Thats nothing new) I can put in 99 routes with numerous weigh points. It gives me altitude, speed, Man overboard = reciprical route. Time till destination at present speed, time of sunset at destination, all the standart features of years ago. I upgraded my navigation by adding a reconditioned lap top and hooking the GPS up to it. I have several good navigation programs. Fugawi is the best one. It will accept any of about 5 map formats where others only use 1 or 2 . In addition to navigation I can watch a movie on DVD do just about any computer type funtion and I hook it all the ships power with a small $28 addaptor. Lap tops usualy need 14 or 15 volts. Oh I can also plot trips by legs and show the distance of each leg. I program whole trips into the system and have everything I need . The system can also run autopilot .

Edited by - Douglas on 12/07/2004 00:00:58

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2004 : 01:07:17

I got the Garmin 72 for my birthday last September. Havent used it a lot yet, off the water now. But I plan on using it quite abit when the racing season starts up again. Used it on our trip to the san joaquine delta. worked great for my needs.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2004 : 08:17:16

I have the Garmin 168 GPS/Sounder. When I am on my "home" water, Folsom Lake, I don't really use the GPS features except for the speed function. The lake is only 3 miles across, so it would be pretty hard to get lost. I mostly use the unit for the depth sounder function. I do want to have GPS when I take the boat to other places like San Francisco Bay, Lake Tahoe, or the San Juans. When I go up to Lake Tahoe, I do a night cruise at least one evening (July 4th, the big fireworks show), and the GPS makes it easier to navigate in the dark and find the entrance to Emerald Bay anchorage.

Edited by - lcharlot on 12/07/2004 08:19:43

Champipple
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
6855 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2004 : 11:38:44

On long distance races I am the navigator on Tsunami. We've had the opportunity to use 2 different Garmin's (the old 12 and a Map 76) as well as a magellan hand held and a KVH multifunction 4 display that has a gps embedded in it.

Pros cons of each
Garmin - seems more user intuitive to me. Has the anchor alarm I am looking for, is easy to find, basic low end models provide me what I need for the area I normally sail. The Maps on Garmin don't seem to be as nice as Magellan, but again seem more navigable. I used to be able to page through the garmin 12 in the dark, then only turn on the light when I got to what I needed. That's how intuitive it was. Unfortunately, all of the products are now so function laden, you'll go crazy if you tried to learn them all. The Map 76 model that I currently own is very nice for both the boat and the car, thus it does double duty.

The magellan model was very, very nice at mapping. I don't recall the exact model number but it was a rather bulky handheld. Probably in the 1200 dollar range when it first came out. I didn't like the programming of waypoints on the magellan as much as the garmin. Marking a spot is easy on any of them. Going back and renaming it seemed to be way too difficult. Mind you, I could do it, and still can do it, I just think there were too many hoops to jump through on that model. It may have changed, I would recommend buying from a dealer that lets you play with it in the store.

The KVH system, about 4 grand for the setup on Tsunami, ironically gives you just the basics when it comes to GPS - Location, distance to waypoint, MOB, speed etc. However what it does when coupled with the other displays is where it gets amazing. It works in conjuction with the wind speed and adjust for apparent wind to give you true wind angle. It gives True VMG based on the boats maximum point in a given wind and all other factors. It measures Lifts and Headers, can give you your layline etc. However, It doesn't map. It's a big pain to program for 3 reasons. 1. It only has four buttons. 2. you can only program it on the boat because it is permanently mounted, 3. Even when your on the boat, its at a level for the skipper and tactician to read, so your best angle is to sit in the companionway and lean over the top of it. It is also more susceptible to lightning strikes than the one that is sitting in your bag.

dw

Magellan - I like the Mapping.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2004 : 11:49:09

From all of these discussions, it is clear that everyone has different needs in a GPS, therefore different preferences, and different models available to meet them.

Once again, for me, I want to see on a displayed nautical chart just where the heck I am, (and to a certain degree, where I have been).
Another thing I like, and have found useful, with the Garmin 176C is that if you put the curser on a harbor and hit the ? key, it will tell you about marinas and services available there, with their phone number, so you can call the dockmaster and get a transient slip if needed.

How do it know?

I also like the dotted line it places on the nautical chart to mark your trail, bread crumbs which will not be eaten by the fish, or float away.

Is this a great country, or what?

Edited by - on

kbq
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
99 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2004 : 18:21:01

Like Dave, I have a Garmin 276C - my fifth Garmin, I think

The anchor watch *is* nice, but keep in mind that our Catalinas tend to "swim" at anchor. You will, like I, find that out when you set the anchor drift limit too short! Also, the alarm isn't too loud; I'll probably use the 276's ability to drive an external alarm device.

Oh, and Dave - with WAAS running, I often see the unit claiming accuracy of 9'. If that were really true, you could almost dock the boat by GPS alone...

Kevin
"wait for me"
250wk #751

Edited by - on

Bubba
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
542 Posts

Response Posted - 12/07/2004 : 19:46:12

I have the Garmin 182C, mounted on a swing arm in the companionway. It's big enough to see from anywhere in the cockpit and the hatch shades it from glare.

Edited by - Bubba on 12/07/2004 19:54:06

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2004 : 08:54:57

From "The Big Sail"

http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/ChesapeakeFLL.html

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Finally, a word on chart plotters. There was the time I approached a harbor at night with a paper chart and an eagle eye, found the reds and greens, figured out which was which and made my approach.....since then industrious people have put up a communications tower every quarter mile, and all of them have flashing red aviation lights on them. Green and yellow lights are drowned out by city lighting of ever increasing intensity and color diversity. Maybe the ranges are more easily visible from a bridge deck many feet up in the air, but at sea level the picture has become more and more polluted and harder to decipher. Initially I felt like I was selling out when I bought the chart plotter...."real sailors don't play video games".

Before simulators, when pilots were taught how to fly solely by reference to instruments, they were put under a "hood", to practice their scan patterns and instrument procedures. A goofy looking visor was placed on the head which blocked out everything except the instruments of the airplane. Thus we would fly around "blind" in visual conditions, with the instructor watching for traffic. If one lifted the hood ever so slightly, not too much or the instructor would notice, there would be a very small gap between the hood and the glareshield. An estute, but otherwise thoroughly disoriented student could recognize something in the familiar landscape and quickly re-orient......the saying amongst the students was:"a peek is worth a thousand scans...." As information on the GPS plotter appears and disappears in layers with different scales, I still check my bearings on paper charts. But it is awfully nice, when that feeling of doubt creeps up as you look into the rainy night, to look at the color screen and go "aha!" and know that you're motoring down the center of the channnel, and not towards the breaking surf over the sand bars.......As far as I'm concerned we're not going anywhere without it anymore.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have the Raymarine 435i. I decided on it after working the problem backwards. Start with the cartography. Who cover's the area you need for the least $$. In my case Navionics has New York to Key West to the eastern tip of the Bahama's on two chips....$400.- which is a third of the next runner up, Bluechart, (Garmin). So after deciding on that I looked at the units which accepted same, and picked the 435i (i=for internal antenna, same price as the external version, but saves $$ and clutter for the antenna you don't need. As it's mounted in the cockpit on the pedestal it works just fine....)

There are lots of features, it holds a gazillion waypoints, and I don't use any of them. I navigate from one "fresh" waypoint to the next, maintaining utmost situational awareness, with the use of paper charts, at all times.

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618)
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

"Hindsight is 20/20, if I knew then what I know now, I would now be living on a small wooden sailboat, making a few bucks here and there playing a guitar and singing songs in bars."

Edited by - Oscar on 12/08/2004 09:03:46

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2004 : 10:56:39

Oscar, I like your backward view (frugality view)

. Like other things, all gps units are good, some are just gooder than others

.

I still own my original Garmin 45, used as the handheld backup to a fixed mounted Garman 25 gps/sounder combo (Larry, I paid the R&D on your unit, you owe me)

. They are getting older and outdated, but they still tell me what I basically need to know.

I did discover a shortcoming in the gps/sounder, its depth alarm was the basis for anchor drag rather than gps...and this almost did me in by not warning of a drag across a very level bottomed bay towards the rocks on hinder shore

. A gps drag alarm I have to believe is an improvement...or both

.

A picture of where I am...yep, that would be an improvement as well, like Frank, I've had to find safe a safe haven in pitch blackness.

The trap seems to always catch me, I buy a new gadget quickly before it has been refined, paying big bucks when its so new... and hate to part with something that is still working and I'm still making payments on

...I hear my wife sometimes calling me something in a low voice that sounds like Mr. Serviceable

.

I found that in reading the above narrations that I'm a lot like Larry, Frank, Dave, Oscar and several others... but I know that I must be unique, cuz once again my wife tells me I'm one of a kind... I'm in hopes its an endearing thought...hmmmm, now I'm wondering

Edited by - on

frogger
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
184 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2004 : 11:24:22

I love my Garmin GPSmap 76C. It does everything I wanted it for and a lot more. It's great for finding your way home by backtracking (keeps the breadcrumbs). Also, I save all of our trips on home computer as well as plan a sail-plan for outings. When we take guests out I can give them a printout of our sail. Mostly I use the map, speed and heading features while sailing.

Edited by - on

sterngucker
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
169 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2004 : 18:26:14

I, too, would not part with my handheld Garmin GPSMap 76S. It has saved my butt several times. My first voyage with C Angel was from Mission Bay to San Diego Bay which took a lot longer than planned (stopping to release fish, get kelp off the rudder, etc) and I found myself spending the night in San Diego Bay and watching the fireworks show. I was not familiar with the bay and it was dark. I knew where the ancorage was on the map though, and the Garmin got me there with ease.

I haven't installed a knotmeter yet and use it to determine how fast I'm sailing and when I should get to where I'm going. Like "frogger" I download my tracks at home to the PC and can see where I went, what time I was there, how fast I was going at what heading. Very cool (to me anyway). I can pin point where I met that pod of dolphins at what time, etc. Wow, my tacking angles really suck, I need to work on that... you get the idea.

It also has a built-in compass for getting angles to landmarks for dead reckoning, a built in barometer for measuring trends in the weather, tides tables for just about anywhere, as well as sun and moon ephemerides, and when the fish are supposed to be biting the best.

It also does double duty in the truck and has saved me from getting lost in the streets of L.A.. I also use it hiking in the mountains as a compass and altimeter.

It uses boat power when mounted on it's quick disconnect on the pedestal guard and is always handy when I'm at the helm.
What's not to like? ( except maybe the price they want for the Blue Chart CD)

BTW: for really deeply discounted GPS Rcvrs, parts, and accessories check out Online-marine.com

Edited by - sterngucker on 12/08/2004 18:30:01

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2004 : 21:04:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It also has a built-in compass for getting angles to landmarks for dead reckoning,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Two thoughts there....the dead reckoning starts when the GPS fries.....so you need a real compass. Also, the GPS compass only indicates correctly WHEN YOU ARE MOVING! Sitting still it has no idea where north is.

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618)
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

"Hindsight is 20/20, if I knew then what I know now, I would now be living on a small wooden sailboat, making a few bucks here and there playing a guitar and singing songs in bars."

Edited by - on

sterngucker
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
169 Posts

Response Posted - 12/08/2004 : 23:38:03

Actually, the Garmin GPSMap 76S has a built in electronic compass that does not require movement to find north. That is what makes it so handy for hiking. Using it for dead reckoning is just for practice. I DO need a hand compass in my inventory though, turning the boat in circles really slows you down ;-)

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2004 : 09:09:18

I sit corrected.......

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2004 : 21:19:35

Oscar does make an important point - the greatest GPS in the world will do you no good if its not working. I love my GPS chartplotter, but I still carry my chartbook, know how to use the compass, keep my binnoculars handy (for finding those markers), pay attention to what's around me (how do those container ships & tugs w/ barges move so fast?!), & if traveling far (especially out of sight of land) I plot my position every hour or so.

When we stayed closer to home waters our GPS 48 was just fine. It really is a matter of where you sail & what your needs are.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2004 : 21:32:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cathluk
 Oscar does make an important point - the greatest GPS in the world will do you no good if its not working. I love my GPS chartplotter, but I still carry my chartbook, know how to use the compass, keep my binnoculars handy (for finding those markers), pay attention to what's around me (how do those container ships & tugs w/ barges move so fast?!), & if traveling far (especially out of sight of land) I plot my position every hour or so...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well said.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 12/09/2004 : 22:18:19

Here's a picture of my new Lowrance M68C, its not the top of the line but has everything I need. Like having the depth finder chart plotter in just one unit. It allows you to cross data from the depth finder onto the map screen so I can monitor depth,speed plus battery voltage by looking at just one screen, also has the anchor alarm. Not bad for $399. Oh yea, it hard to see but thats my home made teak swing arm.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.