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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Keel Bolt Torque

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Alan Therrien
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113 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/13/2004 : 15:23:24

Has anyone asked Catalina what torque should be applied to the keel bolts on the wing keel when doing the routine check up? What is the recommended torque?

Thanks for your help/comments.

Alan Therrien
"Moonpenny"
C250K #418

Edited by - on

Alan Therrien
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Response Posted - 12/15/2004 : 18:22:08

For those who have been reading this message hoping for an answer -

I checked with Kent Nelson at Catalina Yachts today on this matter. He said the proper torque for the keel bolts on the 250 wing keel is 39 ft-lbs. This is one of those items that should be stored on this web site's tech section, if anyone knows how.

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
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Response Posted - 12/17/2004 : 16:54:18

Alan,

Thanks for getting the info. Did he happen to mention how often this should be checked?

Edited by - on

Bubba
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Response Posted - 12/18/2004 : 17:16:22

I'm curious about "checking" the torque on keel bolts. My experience with engine heads, lug nuts, and various other parts with torque specs. involves tightening to the specified torque during assembly. You can't get an accurate torque reading by just putting a torque wrench on a nut or bolt that's already tight. To know it's torqued correctly, you'd have to loosen the nut or bolt and then re-tighten to spec. So, should we really be loosening keel bolts to re-torque them? I realize you'd do them one-at-a-time, but still, the idea gives me pause.

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Alan Therrien
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Response Posted - 12/27/2004 : 15:16:46

Bubba,

Good question. I have never loosened the nut before checking the torque with the torque wrench. Guess I should learn how to properly use a torque wrench.

I seem to recall that the keel bolt torque should be checked annually as part of the spring "commissioning" exercise. I hope someone else can address your question about loosening the nuts to re-torque. It does not seem wise to loosen them - unless the boat is sitting squarely on the keel, and only one bolt at a time is re-torqued.

Edited by - on

bear
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Response Posted - 12/27/2004 : 16:25:13

IMHO checking torque means putting a torque wrench on a bolt, nut, etc and setting the torque wrench to the lowest value specified and appling torque up to that value. Retorque means backing off the bolt or nut just enough below the specified torque value and retorque to the specified value. Also to assist next time you can apply a torque stripe to the bolt and or nut. That forms a type of slippage indicator if the bolt or nut moves the bond on the bolt or nut is broken. It looks like nail polish but has a specific name.

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Jeff McK
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Response Posted - 12/27/2004 : 18:59:09

Alan,

As Bubba noted, only checking ONE bolt at a time should not unduly stress the hull-keel joint, but I'd hate to find out the hard way.

There seems to be a lack of clarity on the best way to do this. When you spoke to Mr. Nelson at Catalina, did he did he mention REtorquing the bolts or just put the wrench on at the specified setting & pull until it went "click" (or whatever your wrench does)

Was there any guidance as to frequency? I'll call the yard that commissioned my boat & see if they have any useful advice. I don't recall them mentioning anything about this when I picked it up from them.

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existentialsailor
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Response Posted - 12/28/2004 : 07:50:36

Bear,

I use glyptol to mark torqued hardware. I'm sure there are other suitable materials as well.
It's essentially colored varnish, very think, consistancy of Elmers glue. I've not used it on my keel bolts as yet, but will after I make and install some new backing plates as suggested.

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Jeff McK
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Response Posted - 12/28/2004 : 10:19:51

This is the story I got today from a yard in Annapolis that does a lot of maintenance on keelboats of all sizes & types:

1. You should check the bolt tightness every couple of years. Exception: you've run aground & backed off or been pulled off. Apparently this puts a lot of stress on the bolts at either end of the keel.
2. Checking should only be done when the boat is ashore & resting on the keel. If you see a crack at the joint where the keel is faired into the hull, youv'e got bigger problems that need an expert's eye.
3. Do NOT loosen & then retighten. This could rip the bedding compound layer loose. Don't forget that your keel weighs about 1050 pounds.

4. Simply get a 3/4" drive socket & a long wrench handle. Give it a good pull, but don't go berserk doing this. It may move 1/4-1/2 half turn or it may not move at all. If it moves more than that you may need to seek professional advice.
5. The 39 ft/lbs setting is apparently way too low if you use a torque wrench. The yard guy said they don't use one, but go mostly by feel.
You might want to check at your end for their opinion.

Good luck, and Happy New Year!

Edited by - Jeff McK on 12/28/2004 14:29:42

Oscar
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Response Posted - 12/28/2004 : 22:09:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The yard guy said they don't use one, but go mostly by feel.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Wrong! (IMHO) I wouldn't re-torque, ie loosen. I think all you're checking for here is that they are not working loose (I don't think they can work themselves too tight). So get the torque wrench, and go click on all bolts. If they are loose, you'll find out. If they don't leak you're OK. My problem is finding a wrench that registers 235 ft/lbs....

Oscar

C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618 )
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
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Response Posted - 12/29/2004 : 06:50:38

Oscar,

I agree with you about using the torque wrench, but I was just reporting what I was told. Stripping a keel bolt would be VERY bad news.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My problem is finding a wrench that registers 235 ft/lbs...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No problem.

Sears has one with a 1/2" drive that goes up to 250 ft/lbs for $90 (Sears item #00944564000):

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes& vertical=TOOL& pid=00944564000& tab=des#tablink

So how tight would you suggest setting the wrench?

Edited by - Jeff McK on 12/29/2004 07:00:15

bear
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Response Posted - 12/29/2004 : 08:08:00

What happened to the 39 ft pounds the manufacture recommended? Once again IMHO you set a torque wrench to 39 foot pounds, put it on the bolt and pull the wrench till it goes click or whatever. If the bolt moves you've gone from a checking torque operation to a retorque.

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Jeff McK
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Response Posted - 12/29/2004 : 11:15:22

Bear,

I hope I didn't make you think the 39 ft/lbs that Alan reported is incorrect. All I was relaying is what the guy at the boat yard said. IMHO, better to start at the manufacturer specs.

I have no idea what Oscar is pulling on at 235 ft/lbs. Maybe it's something on his 42.

Sorry for any confusion.

Edited by - on

Alan Therrien
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Response Posted - 12/30/2004 : 17:43:38

Looks like we got some advice and opinions re:keel bolt torque.

I did not speak directly with Kent Nelson, only asked via email what the appropriate torque setting is for the keel bolts on the C 250K. He provided the figure 39 ft/lbs, which I would consider an accurate figure. Who should know better than the manufacturer?

I have always put the torque wrench on the nut and tightened. If it clicked, I knew it had not been properly torqued. If it did not click, I left it alone. My dealer had previously told me the torque setting should be around 32 ft/lbs. So mine are mostly likely under torqued.

The second season I owned the boat, I checked the torque and found one of the center keel bolts was under torqued, using the 32 ft/lb setting. So, I've considered this something that should be checked from the factory, and also annually. I suspect that most dealers check this "by feel" as mentioned in an earlier reply to this topic.

I have found the keel bolts on my C 250K tight each spring before launch, but I feel better if I check them each year. Now that I know they should be torqued to 39 ft/lbs, I'll see if they were all under torqued at the time of delivery. I'll have to wait for the snow to melt before I go out and check them.

I hope some of you are enjoying a sail in the sunshine. Thanks for your advice, experience and suggestions.

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Oscar
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Response Posted - 12/30/2004 : 23:15:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have no idea what Oscar is pulling on at 235 ft/lbs. Maybe it's something on his 42.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, the keelbolts. Sorry if I added to the confusion.....

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618 )
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

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