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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Another Keel Question

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/13/2004 : 21:20:34

Of all the things that need doing on my boat, the only thing that really has me worried is those cracks around the keel mounting. Does anyone else boat exhibit this? They don't leak, but I'm wondering if the hull core is rotting in that area. There aren't corresponding cracks visible outside, but I wouldn't expect there to be considering the amount of material in this area.

The cracks in the gelcoat radiate out on both sides about 6 inches. At the very least I'm oing to seal them. Everything "sounds" solid around the area using the "wrap" test.

Should these worry me?

Rick

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2004 : 09:31:27

I don't think the Capri has a cored hull... it should be solid fiberglass in that area. The cracks may just be stress cracks in gelcoat.. which happens when the underlying fiberglass mat flexes... or they my be the beginning of a structural problem.

You're lucky in that the area appears to be easily accessible.

I'd sand or grind down the entire 'floor' area outside the keel mount rectangle at least as far back as far as the second keel bolt to 'clean' fiberglass and build it up with roving/epoxy... another 3/8" worth or so. Shouldn't take long to do or cost much and if done right, it will be a 'no worries' area in the future.

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2004 : 10:51:40

Hi Rick,

With the damage to the keel near its forward lower corner, I'd say that someone ran Swimmer aground fairly hard sometime. It might be a good time to have another set of eyes take a look.

BTW: A newer Pearson 28 from my marina ran into a charted rock at about 5.5 knots boatspeed....... The impact nearly tore the keel loose from the bottom. As it was the hull was severely cracked both in front of and aft of the keel......with significant water entering. They nearly sank the boat before it could be gotten back and into slings.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2004 : 14:41:45

Yep, looks like there was some flex and the "pretty" cracked a little.....(ever put a dent in a baked enamel pan?) Generally looks worse than it is......there's no core to rot, boat's not leaking. You can have someone look at it, but make sure it's not someone who's out to make money fixing things, broke or not. If it was my boat, I'd go sailing: that keel is not going to fall off (and take half the hull with).....

But what do I know......

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618)
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

"Hindsight is 20/20, if I knew then what I know now, I would now be living on a small wooden sailboat, making a few bucks here and there playing a guitar and singing songs in bars."

Edited by - Oscar on 12/14/2004 14:43:37

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2004 : 18:04:25

Thanks for the input guys. I'm a little concerned because of how the forward bolt looks as well:

and the fact that over a month after the boat being in her cradle, I'm still cleaning up water out of the bilge, though a LOT less this past Sunday:

I also have a call into Catalina to find out if the Capri has the oak board (keel stub) on top of the keel like a lot of the older Catalinas and if there is a way to check its condition.

And Oscar, I think you know a lot, problem is, I don't so I come here hoping to gather some info. I intended to have a surveyor give it a once over, I think the money would be well spent and then I would have a relative comprehensive list of what must be done, should be done and would be nice to do. I did sail Swimmer for almost 2 months while I could. Now I just want to make sure I can sail her for another 10 years or so.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2004 : 18:12:18

Surveyor is a good idea. No conflict of interest. Water is not bad inand of itself, I DO always wnat the question answered: Where's the water coming from?

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618)
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

"Hindsight is 20/20, if I knew then what I know now, I would now be living on a small wooden sailboat, making a few bucks here and there playing a guitar and singing songs in bars."

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2004 : 19:08:24

Oscar,

Coremat can't rot? I didn't know that. It's reassuring with what the hull looks like. I see so many references to a "dry out". Seems a common need on Capris.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 12/14/2004 : 22:25:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by existentialsailor
 Oscar,

Coremat can't rot?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If they're like our Catalinas, the references to rot are related to the deck and cabintop, where plywood is used as a core. Howevever, if moisture gets into the hull laminations and then freezes during winter storage, it can cause serious delamination, which is especially an issue around the keel stub. That's why a surveyor will use a moisture meter on the hull.

I agree with Bill--that forward bolt plus the cracks suggest a whack on the front of the keel. But what's with the one dinky washer? Keep in mind that water in the bilge can come from above as well as below. There have been many discussion on that here, particularly having to do with likely sources on a Cat 25 and how to track them down (with chalk lines, for example).

I definitely second the survey--it's generally a good idea before purchase, but a good investment after, as well. Be there with a clipboard, ask questions, and take notes.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2004 : 07:23:52

Thanks for the info Dave. I've certainly learned a great deal about sailboat construction in the last week. The keel was definately whacked as the damage to the front tip shows.

I've been doing a lot of reading on repairing this and hope someone from Catalina will call me back with specifics on the Capri.
Having the survey will assist me in prioritizing repairs.
I wondered about that lack of washer on the front bolt too. Certainly, the stud is long enough.

Thank you to everyone for the helpful suggestion and explanations!

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2004 : 09:35:07

"I wondered about that lack of washer on the front bolt too."

I'd be inclined to have some really big stainless backing washers/plates made up... especially for that first bolt.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 12/15/2004 : 15:14:26

I just got a call back from Catalina, they sure are helpful. First, the hull is actually solid fiberglass, they didn't use coremat in them and second, I have the same stub wood on the top of the keel as do regular Catalinas. They recommened I replace it. They are also sending me more info on the portlights and the tiller/rudder. The tiller goes through the hull in the cockpit on a Capri and develops wobble as it gets old.

Edited by - on

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