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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Tall Rig vs. Standard

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Rich G
Navigator

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226 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/02/2005 : 23:12:03

I have narrowed my search for a boat down to two:

1) 1984 Standard rig in immaculate condition (and a price to match)

2) 1981 Tall rig with a bit of wear (and a price to match)

Both have fin keels and, oddly enough, no pop top. It'll be a first boat for me, and I'm rather inclined to buy the less expensive, older, more beat up boat following the same philosophy of having a beater as a first car until you learn your lessons.

My main question is how will the two different rigs behave? I'll be sailing on the Western end of the LI Sound and will not be racing.

Thanks . . .

-Rich.

Rich

Cerberus
Hull #4695
1984 SR/FK No Pop-Top

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 06:51:27

The '81 tall rig may be somewhat better suited for the wind conditions you're likely to encounter on the western end of the Long Island Sound, and I like my tall rig fin a lot. That being said I'd still opt for the '84 since it'll have a lead keel rather than a cast iron one with its attendent maintenance issues. In fact, the newer, more costly vessel may end up being less expensive in the not so long run if it's in immaculate condition and the rigging, chainplates, (aluminum?)spreader sockets, etc. don't need to be replaced.

Good luck with either choice.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 07:07:03

I like my tall rig as well, especially on those light wind days. The downside is that the boom sits about a foot lower than on the standard rig. This makes it difficult to install a bimini top should you be so inclined. I also agree with Mark on the lead keel.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 08:15:04

Rich,

I have sailed my tall rig for 15 years and have enjoyed it immensly. However, an "old salt" friend of mine told me that you should put the money into the boat you want now, rather than replacing the whole works later, and at greater cost. Sage advise as we are apt to upgrade either the existing boat or buy a bigger boat in time. In my opinion, you are better off getting the 84 standard rig now rather than plowing a lot of money cleaning up the "beater" later. Upgrading a boat's appearance and systems is fun but can be very expensive, especially on a limited "boating" budget.

I am sure that I would have enjoyed a standard rig as much as my tall rig if I had purchased one originally. I think that most would agree that while we enjoy the boats we sail, the act of sailing is the true source of our joy.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - aeckhart on 01/03/2005 08:16:43

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:25:04

Here in Southern CA I have a standard rig fin and my friend Gary has a tall rig wing. The boats are very equal in speed under sail. There's not that much difference except in very light air. He flys his 110, I my 135 and we sail side by side for hours. When the wind pipes up real strong the SR may be a little faster and easier to handle. No question in air less than 5 knots the TR is faster. Of course unless you're in a race in that wind you would probably be motorsailing.

Either boat will be fun and good to learn on. Check the sails, equipment and engine. Can you bring the 81 up to equivalent status for the difference in price?

If on the 84 you're getting newer 4 stroke engine, new sails, new rigging, interior in great condition, autopilot, depthfinder, GPS, roller furling, etc. it may actually be cheaper.

Can't put a price on the pride you'll have in a lovely looking vessel that's well equipped compared to an older one that always looks a little tired and worn out (like mine).

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 20:48:45

Hi Rich,
Catalina 25's are really strong, tough boats. Don't worry too much about beating it up. I don't know your budget constraints, but all things being equal, I would choose the newer boat in good shape. Let's say you become truly addicted to sailing and want a larger boat in a few years. The newer boat in better shape will also get you more money when you sell, so you will recoup some of this higher initial cost. It will also sell quicker.
I also agree with the issue of pride in having a nice looking boat.
I know I like a good looking, clean smelling boat to take dates out on.
With that said, a tall rig is really nice too.

What to do, what to do..........

Good luck and keep us posted. You can't go wrong with any Catalina 25

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/03/2005 : 23:02:30

Hi Rich... We had a somewhat atypical summer on the Western L.I. Sound this past year--more wind than usual in July and August, calling for a reefed main or even the jenny alone a number of days on my SR. Usually it's lighter (or dead) during those months. But given that this is your first boat, I think the SR will be more comfortable for you in a breeze, and I appreciate the higher boom on the SR. The glass-encased lead keel on the '84 is nice, although the iron keel on the '81 is a little tougher in a grounding (or when whacking one of our granite cows, which is not recommended)--make sure you have charts.

When you decide, buy it with a survey contingency, and participate in the survey--you'll learn a lot. And see if you can find out the vintage of the standing rigging--20 years in salt water is stretching it. A full set from Catalina Direct (www.catalinadirect.com) is around $600. And get their C-25 Owner's Handbook for something like $10.

Out of curiosity, where are the boats? I might know one of them... Mine is sitting in Norwalk Cove Marina for the winter. I'm moving shortly to the Eastern Sound, where the SR will be just right in the ocean breezes. Can't wait!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/03/2005 23:16:21

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2005 : 07:33:26

Stop being coy. How much? There is a definite price range to our boats, I would hate to see you pay more than you should. The broker should work for his commission, mine had done NOTHING to the boat I bought and he still collected 10%.

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wmkoines
1st Mate

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56 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2005 : 12:50:53

My wife and have a 1981 tall rig sailing out of Oyster Bay, NY (no Pop up either). I would lean toward the tall rig for those hot and windless days of summer. Take a hard look at the motor. That’s where the money is. Great boat

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SJ
Navigator

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USA
198 Posts

Response Posted - 01/04/2005 : 13:53:50

I've had two 25's both tall rigs in WLIS. With the wind conditions that we usually see in the sound during the summer, the tall rig is the way to go. Easy to reef the main in a blow, hard to increase the SA if you don't have it.... My vote go with the tall rig. On another note, the first boat I had di not have the poptop. The second does...I'd almost keep looking for a tall rig fin keel with a pop top....

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Rich G
Navigator

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226 Posts

Response Posted - 01/06/2005 : 18:08:49

My partner and I have decided to put an offer in on the newer boat even though it is further away (it's currently in Mattapoisett, MA, we live in NYC). In the long run, the fact that it has a new main, new motor and new berth cushions was the deal breaker. I'll keep posting on the progress . . .

-Rich.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2005 : 12:05:29

Rich: You could just leave it there--sailing's better on Buzzard's Bay than in Hell's Gate!

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Rich G
Navigator

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226 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2005 : 16:17:03

Dave-

Yes, of course the sailing is better on Buzzard's Bay, but City Island is only a 20 Minute drive from the Upper West Side of Manhattan, whereas Mattapoisett is a good 4 - 5 hours . . .

-Rich.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2005 : 20:21:27

Ya, but how long would it take you to get from City Island to Martha's Vinyard?

BTW, good choice! You'll love the boat!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/07/2005 20:31:00

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The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.