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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Tiller Treatment ?

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familysailor
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/13/2005 : 14:34:51

I am in the process of treating all the external wood on my 77 C-25. I have the teak under control but am not sure what to do with the tiller. It shows years of exposure and is beginning to delaminate in one spot (only one lamination). Do I sand the tiller down and treat with Cetol, epoxy coat it, or is there another option? I would like it to look nice but am very concerned with protecting it. Thanks all.

Russ
Catalina 25 SK/SR #240 "Daydream"
Provo, Ut.

Edited by - on

Jonathan Cuff
Navigator

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Cayman Island
173 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2005 : 14:51:36

If it shows sign of delamination I would buy a new one from Catalina Direct. When I first got my boat my tiller came off in my hand which was an unnerving experience even if I was just moving it from one end of the canal to the other!!

Cheers

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2005 : 14:58:40

Hi Russ,

With replacement tillers relatively cheap (I paid $48.00 at BoatUS a few years ago) and your tiller showing years of exposure and delamination, I would suggest simply getting a new one instead trying to refurbish what might be a failing tiller.

My old tiller was also a little rough around edges with signs of delamination and, after getting the new one, I gave the old one a stress test by putting a little weight on it and it snapped like a twig.

Going with new will save you some time and effort, and probably isn't that much more $$$ than buying epoxy, Cetol, and other items to fix up the old tiller.

Just a thought.

Good Luck.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2005 : 16:05:35

If its really just one little spot ... I sanded mine down and coated it with Cetol when I did the rest of the teak. I keep a canvas cover on the tiller when not in use.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2005 : 16:57:37

I have sanded and used multiple coats of urethane very successfully.

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2005 : 18:23:51

Mine delaminated and came apart at the rudder. I sanded between the layers, drilled holes and got some SS bolts, squirted epoxy in the cracks, tightened up the bolts and put on a quick coat of cetol when I did the rest of the teak. It has been holding up for the last 3 years with no sign of stress. I would like to try and laminate my own, I know it would be cheeper and easier to buy one but that's just not the same.
Has anyone made their own?

Edited by - on

Bruce Ebling
Navigator

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USA
155 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2005 : 20:53:07

Another treatment to consider (after sealing the tiller of course) is to do a French whipping on the tiller with a turks head near the end. I did this treatment on "Rascal" an '85 FK I previously owned. It looked real cool and protected the tiller. I believe that you could even paint the line to further protect things.
Bruce Ebling
1989 WK "Selah"

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/13/2005 : 21:29:00

From experiences I'm aware of, the most common failures in tillers occur where you can't see them--generally between the two plates that attach to the rudder head. A 20-year-old tiller that's showing signs of structural deterioration is probably just waiting to fail that way, and it will be under stress--meaning at a really inopportune time! Epoxy might fix it, or it might not.

I'd invest the $50.

For finishing, I prefer spar varnish to Cetol for the tiller--polyurethane is a reasonable alternative. As much as I like Cetol for the teak, it's not really intended for the wear that a tiller gets. I remove the plates and varnish, making sure to get some into the bolt holes to protect against moisture intrusion at the most critical points--a Q-tip can do the job.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2005 : 09:25:16

Dave brings up a good point about the holes at the mounting plates.

My old tiller, which looked great from the tip to the beginning of the mounting plates, was destroyed because over time moisture found its way into the plate mounting holes. From there, this water caused delamination, which allowed even more water intrusion, and more damage.

To prevent this with the new tiller, I used thin neoprene washers both between the tiller and the mounting plates, and between the bolts/nuts and the mounting plates. I also used nylon lock nuts so that the assembly could not loosen up over time and allow moisture intrusion.

Additionally, I glued a small rubber bumper to the tiller in the area where it makes contact with the notch on the rudder when its at rest. This prevents the finish from wearing away from direct contact.

Lastly, I ordered the CD tiller cover which is made so that the material slips over the entire rudder top, completely covering the entire tiller.

Edited by - dlucier on 01/14/2005 09:47:37

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2005 : 10:26:44

Mine went the same route as Don's. You couldn't see the damage until it was too late.
I purchased a new one from CD, I believe for around $55-58 total w/shipping. Beautiful wood plus it rises at the bend several more inches to clear the cockpit better. Money well spent.
I did pour some sealer down the mounting holes after I drilled them, this one didn't come pre-drilled, but Don's idea about the washers is something I will do that I didn't. Have a new tiller cover coming in today with my new 150. (YEA!!!

)
IMHO if your not sure if the problem is only superficial I'd opt to just replace it.

Edited by - on

familysailor
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 01/14/2005 : 18:36:02

Thanks for all the input. I have pulled all the plates off the tiller and sanded it down. There is no sign of any problem, including water damage under the plates, anywhere but about six inches of one lamination. My main concern at the start was to be sure the delamination didn't get any worse but I think I will look harder and further for any other signs of damage. Loosing a tiller is not high on my list of fun things to do. Thanks all.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2005 : 11:56:25

Delamination seems to be a widespread problem with Catalina 25 tillers that are more than about 10 years old. I suspect that they are built with some kind of glue that isn't as resistant to moisture and temperature changes as it could be. I wonder if the manufacturer could do the lamination with epoxy instead of Elmers glue (or whatever it is), and still keep the retail price under $60? Epoxy is about the strongest, most water-resistant adhesive on earth.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2005 : 20:01:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lcharlot
 I wonder if the manufacturer could do the lamination with epoxy instead of Elmers glue (or whatever it is), and still keep the retail price under $60? Epoxy is about the strongest, most water-resistant adhesive on earth.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes, but if it's holding layers of wood together, and the wood deteriorates, it doesn't matter much how strong the epoxy is. You want something that's impervious--use an ugly aluminum tube (like Hunter does). You want something pretty--plan on replacing it after 15-20 years, or expect an unpleasant surprise.

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2005 : 21:40:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
You want something pretty--plan on replacing it after 15-20 years, or expect an unpleasant surprise.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Pretty good return on $50 if you ask me.

Edited by - Charlie Vick on 01/16/2005 21:42:15

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 01/16/2005 : 22:55:16

Buy a replacement tiller and keep it as spare. At 50 bucks, that's cheap. Fix your existing one as best you can. If it breaks, you've got the new one ready to go online.

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 01/17/2005 : 10:33:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave Bristle
 Yes, but if it's holding layers of wood together, and the wood deteriorates, it doesn't matter much how strong the epoxy is.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You have a point! If water has penetrated the bolt holes, the wood will come apart no matter what. However, I have seen these tillers splitting apart even when the wood is still perfectly sound, often at the forward end where there are no bolt holes to let in water. I wonder if it might be something to do with the very hot summer temps here - it can get to 105ºF at Folsom Lake every day in July and August; could the high heat be softening the glue? Oh well, 50 bucks once in 10 or 15 years is pretty cheap for any kind of boat supplies, and a brand new tiller sure is purty with the sun glinting off the varnish!

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