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port-a pottie dumping facilities

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/22/2005 : 02:13:55

The marina I am in has no "official" pottie dump. There is a pump out, in fact there are three to service the houseboat folks. They won't be bothered with a port-i-pottie. I have been told by the marina management to just carry the pottie into the public restroom and put in down the toilet. I prefer to not carry this offensive device around a crowded marina in the summer. And I can really clear the restroom when I enter to take care of this business. I have in the past 2 years been dumping the pottie in the floating restrooms that are stratigicly placed around the lake for the ski boaters to use. When I mentioned to the Recreation Area Manager about this problem and that I had been dumping in the floating restrooms, she put her hands over her ears and told me she didn't want to hear that, evidently this is illegal. When I told her that the only alternative was the bathrooms, she replied that was illegal also. Some health code, go figure!!

OK, so here is the question. Because of my championing proper facilities, the local authorities have directed the marina to provide or else. The marina has no idea, or so they say, what is proper or how it works. I need photos from any of you who can provide them of the dump sites you use. I know, pretty disgusting.

I have seen and used some wonderful dumps on our travels, unfortunately I never felt the need to photo them to share with the rest of my vacation photos. Can anybody help???

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 08:17:22

Ed - I will be out at the lake today, working on the new motor mount and will get a photo of the porta-pottie dump facility. There are two bathrooms at Folsom Lake marina and each has an outside dump sink. This is simply a large sink like a laundry tub with an extra-large drain hole and of course a water faucet and hose bib. These are "official" porta-pottie dump stations. In fact, for all but the last 3 or 4 years, these two sinks were the ONLY place at Folsom Lake that sewage could be disposed of since there was no pumpout until 2001. The maximum size boat that can be berthed at Folsom Lake is 27' x 10' (and only about a dozen slips are even that large); the vast majority of the boats are 22' or smaller and thus have porta potties, not full MSD's with holding tanks. I will be home by 19:00 tonight and will send the photos later this evening.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 08:41:20

Ed, interesting question. I recall when I first got my boat and using a porti and emptying it even with a half bath just inside the back door, doing so would fog a major portion of the house so unless the rest room has a major exhaust vent(and they don't), its not cool to offend others by discharging in a rest room.

The answer of course as you say is some outdoor facility where fresh air disperses the offense. The location would also need to be off the beaten path. A three sided concrete block structure perhaps 4'8" square would leave 3'4" inside and 40" tall (5 blocks)would shield others from witnessing the event but leave it well open. The floor should be well sloped to a floor drain to ensure that any spillage is caught as well as for rinsing. A four inch standpipe with a removable cap should stick up about a foot to save the back while holding the pottie during discharge. The standpipe should be about a foot away from the wall across from the open entrance with the entrance chosen for the least exposure. A short length of hose from a frost free spicket for rinsing and water recharge.

Barring the construction of such facilities... porti potties should be required plumbed to a deck discharge such as required in Canada.

This is not a major construction project and wouldn't be too expensive. I would think that those who would benefit from such a facility should offer to make it a project... some contribute and some do the work. In most areas it will require a plumber be involved which would be the greatest expense and that will depend mostly on existent sewage lines. Some locations will have existant yard clean outs and turning the cleanout into the standpipe would work.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 09:26:03

Uhhh...nice topic to start my morning with!

I think I'll eat breakfast a little later.

Ed,

From the tone of your post, I can tell that you are not to fond of hauling a sloshing bucket of...well, you know...to empty, so if I were you, I'd install a porta-potty with a pumpout fitting and use one of those three pumpouts installed at the marina.

Edited by - on

BJ Wagner
1st Mate

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USA
50 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 10:16:29

I've never seen any type of porti pottie dumping station at any of the lakes here in Arizona.

At the end of the weekend, it's been the routine to take the lower part home, open up the clean-out for the sewer system in my front yard and dump it there.

Plenty of fresh air, the bleach bottle and garden hose all standing by.

There is no way, the wife would allow the dumping of the pottie in one of the inside toilets under any circumstances.

Our local lake does have pumpout facilities and to that means, I have been working on installing a marine head. Not sure which one is easier, but I think I would rather pump out at the end of the weekend, then have to carry the porti-pottie through a busy marina to dump it after hearing mid way through the weekend "it's full", especially with guests onboard.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 10:26:09

Ed,

You might also try contacting the portapotty makers for suggestions. They should have some idea what sort of dumping facilities work (and what don't). They might even have free plans available via e-mail, download, or FAX. I'm just hoping and guessing here, but it seems like it would be workth a try.

-- Leon Sisson {liking my holding tank even more}

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 10:55:35

I am confused. We have pit toilets at our club and of course you can dump them there. I cannot imagine any good reason to forbid dumping in a conventional toilet either. I also cannot imagine any facility not having an RV dump station somewhere. Instead of hooking up the RV hose you simply open the cap on the ground and dump. As far as looking odd walking around with it... the only people who dress dumber than golfers are sailors.

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 12:24:33

Dedicated purpouse designed facilities would of course be nice. In the meantime here's how I dealt with minimizing the unpleasantness while using the regular marina facilities.

1. Go around 6-7 am. This is when most people are in there doing heavy duty business. Most of these "mariners" had a beer or six last night. It's a Super Fund by any definition, you'll fit right in.

2 The tank part carries like a jerry can. Put on a "WHAT?" face. If you are self conscious about walking down the dock like this, paint it red or blue and paint "40:1" on it or "Diesel" respectively. You can also make a slipcover with handle cutout out of an appropriate fabric, like the leftovers from your curtains.

3 Bring a can of serious air freshener. Spray before during and after. Flush while pouring.

4 Finally, and most seriously, if you add odor fighter, the enzyme kind which promotes breakdown, not the formaldehyde, you will have very little odor.

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618 )
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

Edited by - on

JJM
Navigator

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USA
170 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 12:40:12

My Marina office advised me to just take the unit and dump it in any one of the bathrooms that are supplied for our use. I agree with Oscar, if you use odor fighter (I hope you all do!), there is scant little odor to deal with. The biggest problem I see is that if anyone is in the next stall while I am discharging the pottie into the toilet, they must think I have a HUGE capacity bladder!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 13:48:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 ...I cannot imagine any good reason to forbid dumping in a conventional toilet either. I also cannot imagine any facility not having an RV dump station somewhere...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My marina forbids dumping porta-potty's in the marina toilet facilities for both health reasons (hepatitis, cholera, typhoid...etc) and also because it's not fair to the cleaning personnel who keep our facilities meticulously clean and shiny.

Additionally, my facility (marina) does not have an RV dump station...Why would it?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 14:36:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by fhopper@mac.com
 ...I cannot imagine any good reason to forbid dumping in a conventional toilet either. I also cannot imagine any facility not having an RV dump station somewhere...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My marina forbids dumping porta-potty's in the marina toilet facilities for both health reasons (hepatitis, cholera, typhoid...etc) and also because it's not fair to the cleaning personnel who keep our facilities meticulously clean and shiny.

Additionally, my facility (marina) does not have an RV dump station...Why would it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I do not understand. WOW all you guys with holding tanks, did you know you are bio terrorists! Jeez all those porta johns in the world are weapons!
Why would the contents of a porta potty be ripe with disease? What kind of porta potty stewardship would foster that!!! Urine is sterile, (and all that is in most porta pottys). Feces is Biomass that is being controlled by chemicals in the porta potty and in my world not in a porta potty more than a couple of hours. And who makes any kind of mess emptying a porta potty? It goes in the toilet, not on the floor! As for RV dumping stations, in the world of state parks, the RV is king and the marina is a minor player. I can see where city marinas would not have RV facilities but I would think most marinas are surrounded by RV parks. (Kansas-think here.)
Like I said, I don't understand! One of the most fun things about this forum is the insight into the world of boaters from other areas; fascinating.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 15:02:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Oscar
 4 Finally, and most seriously, if you add odor fighter, the enzyme kind which promotes breakdown, not the formaldehyde, you will have very little odor.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Exactly what I was going to say. Using that, I dump in our bathroom with virtually no serious odors. Obviously, it helps the atmosphere in the boat, too.

For me, an advantage of dumping vs. being pumped out is the opportunity to seriously wash down the tank and bowl. Dumping stations generally include hoses for the purpose.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 01/22/2005 15:03:37

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 17:47:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">hepatitis, cholera, typhoid...etc) and also because it's not fair to the cleaning personnel who keep our facilities meticulously clean and shiny.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The spreading of the above mentioned contageous diseases is an issue if 1: People have the diseases. (Most of us around here do not) and 2: Bathe or drink the same water they crap in. I dumped my portapotty in the toilet, not the well. Your marina is full of....(I'm sorry...I can't help myself) As far as the cleaning lady, I clean up after myself, whether I deposit directly or via an intermediate vessel. No cleaning lady ever suffered unnecessarily as a result of my actions.

Frank is correct.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">For me, an advantage of dumping vs. being pumped out is the opportunity to seriously wash down the tank and bowl.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And, very importantly, when NOT on the boat I would take the thing out, rinse it, bleach it and park it in the garage.....This kept the boat smelling springtime fresh....

Wish I could do that on Lady Kay (3) With two holding tanks there is always some serious ventilation to do If you've been away for a while, and that's after replacing lot's of hoses, flappers and gallons of treatment.

Oscar
C42 # 76 "Lady Kay" (Ex. C250 WB #618 )
Georgetown MD/Fort Lauderdale FL

Edited by - Oscar on 01/22/2005 17:53:07

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 18:25:46

Certainly, each marina is obligated to abide by their state regulations, so there will be many versions of what is OK.

I am fortunate to have unlimited access to use a pump-out station at my marina that is included in the annual fee. Lugging the bottom unit over is certainly unappealing, but has to be done. Dumping port-a-pots in the toilets there is expressly forbidden, and can be grounds for immediate cancellation of the contract (without a refund) plus a hefty clean-up charge and possible citation by the Natural Resources or state Health Department folks.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Originally posted by fhopper:
I cannot imagine any good reason to forbid dumping in a conventional toilet either.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I don't know what kind of toilets you have where you are, but IMHO most of the commercial ones I've run across would have a hard time handling the volume of material a full port-a-pot contains. The concept of causing a major back-up and haz-mat incident is not appealing. BTW, feces is one of the most common methods of transmission for hepatitis, cholera, dysentery, salmonella, etc. While relatively uncommon in the US, there are folks out there who are infected & may not know it or care if they are. To borrow from Dirty Harry: "Do you feel lucky?" The chemicals in a port-a-pot do not eliminate these organisms 100% in a couple of hours.

Edited by - Jeff McK on 01/22/2005 18:32:40

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 19:00:20

Ahhh... within a heartbeat we're back on the marine head vs. porta potti issue.

It's funny, something we take for granted in our homes becomes a major issue on our boats, and with very differing and emotional sides to both camps.

This almost gets to the point of donkeys vs. elephants which we all know is forbidden on this forum. (For good reason!)

I guess my point is maybe we should get back to trying to help Ed with his problem.

ED, personally I think if you want to keep your porta potti, take the advice given before and rig it to be pumped out instead of having to take it off and dump it by hand.

I like porta potties because (now I'm sucked into the debate!) I don't have a pump out anywhere close to my cove (Its on the other end of the lake!) but I do have an RV dump station within 15 minutes so its not much of a problem, just an inconvenience.

One rule I have on my boat though, its only #1 not #2.
If its an emergency there's nothing you can do, but if you only keep it to liquid it's not much of a problem.
Of course thats just for day sailing, not for extended trips.

The RV dump stations I've seen would probably be way more money than your marina is willing to spend just for people to dump their porta potties.

Wish I could be more help.
(And no I won't dump your pottie for you!)

Edited by - on

rclift
Navigator

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USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 19:44:08

On the Columbia River a lot of public facilities are putting in these pumpout units that serve both as a conventional pumpout and porta-potti dump. Very clean and free. I was tired of dealing with the plumbing issues with Buzz and changed over to a pumpable porta-pot and have been really pleased.
http://www.sanisailor.com/ is the company that puts together these systems

Edited by - rclift on 01/22/2005 20:14:23

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 20:10:28

Here is the best of all worlds...no plumbing, no water, no dumping, no pumping out: www.incinolet.com

Bert

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 23:44:52

Wow, what a response!! I had no intention of starting a debate on the pro's and con's of port-o-potties. The fact is I have made my choice and yes I do have the option of pumping out, if I had the fittings. The facts are, #1) Houseboats rule the pump out stations. You have to make an appointment with the marina, their rentals come first. Most of the time, rentals are parked in the way two deep, even when not being pumped. The service is free, if you can get it. #2) There are RV dumps up in the camp sites about 1 mile away. I would much perfer to dump the darned thing and put it back on the boat where it belongs. I don't want to bring it home with me. #3) Here in California the laws and codes for handling human waste are very strict. Dumping in the restrooms is absolutely forbidden. That said, I admit that is what I did for the first 6 years on the lake. I am not saying other states aren't as strict, maybe more lenient. Water from this lake winds up coming out of water taps in Los Angeles 300 miles south of us.

I like the idea of disguise, brings a little intrigue into smuggling it around, maybe keep the pottie Nazi's off my trail. Good idea Oscar, but I still need to have a place to dump it.

Hey, Gotta love Bert's Incinolet.

Thank you Ray for the photo and link to the Columbia River's answer. I will add it to the list of good ideas and give it to the marina management. Thank you Leon, I will contact the manufactures and see if they can offer any info.

Edited by - on

tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2005 : 00:55:24

Ed, I can relate to your problem. While at the lake we were out on the water for a few days between potty dumps. I first used the facilities at your marina (dumped it in the toiet). That was particularly unpleasant as they are dark windowless rooms with an undersized fan. My son and I beat it our of there as fast as we could. On top of that, even with a dock cart is was a long haul to the restrooms from the end of the dock. Later we dumped into the floating toilets. I would use a bucket of water to clean the apparatus when we were done. I can't imagine trying to haul it up the hill to the RV station.

Here in Morro Bay, and also up in Monterey Bay they have a system like the Sanisailor one above.

Oscar, you may be a clean user of public facilies but I'm sure you are aware that not all people are. You guys must get a private head on your planes I can't imagine they making you walk all the way to the back of the plane with every passenger watching. I'm sure the passenger facilites get trashed from time to time.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2005 : 09:58:21

Ed- Here are the photos of the Folsom Lake Marina porta-pottie dump station I promised yesterday. As you can see, it is just a big sink, like a laundry tub, right outside the restroom, and plumbed to the same septic tank that the toilets in the restroom drain to.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2005 : 10:55:24

Probably need to put up a sign... no dishwashing, laundry or bathing in this sink. ;>)

Hmmm... looks like it's where they feed the marina cat too.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2005 : 11:51:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 Hmmm... looks like it's where they feed the marina cat too.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You're right, someone (the marina staff I guess) leaves food and water for cats here, although I've heard that racoons probably get most of it.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2005 : 02:18:59

I took my mom went to the hospital the other day, the emergency room she was in has a sink almost identical to teh one shown above that they use for the bed side comodes.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2005 : 11:39:57

In Oceanside Harbor(CA)they have two pumpouts dockside and also a porta-potti dump station similar to the SaniSailor depicted above. Unfortunately the dump station has been broken since last fall so the only alternatives are to:
1. sail out three miles and dump
2. dump it in the marina restroom toilet
3. haul it home and dump it in my toilet.
I chose # 1 last fall and # 2 this past weekend. If I was on a lake I would choose # 2 unless there was a fine involved. If the only reason not to dump it in the public toilet was because it offends the sensibilities of others I would apologize profusely and do it anyway. If they are going to level me with a fine I would take it home.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2984 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2005 : 19:11:49

I can't help myself and have to weigh back on this subject. Pouring the contents of a porti potti into a sink seems like a poor plan that has only one goal... dealing with inadequate sized plumbing to handle the output of the potti.

It is obvious from the state of the sink that the flush mechanism is wholy inadequate to keeping basic sanitation. The lack of a hose even though a hose bibb is present albeit it's handle is missing is indicitive of a poor effort or priority given to the facility, but that isn't strange given the poor planning to use a sink rather than a standpipe.

Then again, maybe someone took the hose and hose bibb handle off after complaints of the output of the hose splattering s--t all over both the user and the facility

.

While a sink like this might be a good plan for recycling bedpans after they have been emptied in a toilet, I think such use for porti potties as the dumping point is border line moronic.

Having easily discharged a porti pottie into a standpipe at a dump station, I gotta believe a large enough standpipe is the way to go. The swivel neck of the pottie goes easily into the pipe. Maybe I'm missing something, perhaps all porti's don't have a swivel discharge neck.

IMHO it will be poorly designed facilities like the sink, that lead to outlawing of portie potties and that would be shame when portie's fill a fundamental need.

Canada has a no porti law... Three years ago, the Trailer Sailor group had a cruising regatta in the North Channel with about thirty boats participating, most from the US. Spanish, Ontario has without question the finest marina and facility I've ever seen. The facility is modern, has large clean restrooms more like a sportscenters locker room, a workout room, laundry, gift shop, and lounge. The harbor master runs a tight ship but is dedicated to cheerfully servicing the needs of visitors and both he and the staff are friendly and competant and prices for services are modest.

A month after the cruise was over, the cruiser leader reported getting a letter from the harbor master outlining his appreciation for the cruisers visiting the marina and using its facilities but that someone in the group had discharged a porti potti in the restroom and that this constituted a serious violation. Continuing, he outlined that their pumpout facility was very well equipped to deal with porti potties either plumped for deck pumpout according to their law or otherwise but that the violation required assurance from any future cruise leader before the group would be welcome back.

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2005 : 19:33:38

Arlyn, My experience with dump facilities ranges from one extreme to the other. I just didn't have any pictures. Obviously these things are subject to abuse as illustrated by Larry's sink at Folsom Res in Sacramento. A nice lid would certainly help in that case. But then again the park rangers are probably thinking of the least distructable the better. I like the idea of just having a stand pipe, 4" should do it. My marina is well below the crest of the local terrain. All affluent is pumped up out of the marina, so there would need to be some sort of back flow devise or the possibilty for blow back would be high.

I plan to visit with the marina management soon.

Edited by - on

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