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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Winter condensation?

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Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/22/2005 : 17:23:12

Time to demonstrate my ignorance...

My boat is wintering in the water (upper Chesapeake Bay). I had dried everything out about 3 weeks ago, and had put a medium sized bucket of dehumidifier granules on the cabin sole. I've got a boomtent covering the entire topsides, and the hatch cover canvas is in place.

I went to check her yesterday before the latest snowstorm, and found about 3" of partly frozen water in the bilge & a thin film of ice in the back berth area. I tasted it, and it seems to be fresh water, so that rules out a leak from the transducer through-hulls. The water tank and port-a-pot has nothing but antifreeze in them, and the bilge water was NOT pink. The head floor is dry, so I don't think the often reported port leak is an issue. The v-berth area is also dry, so I am fairly certain the forward hatch is not a culprit.

It was abot 20 degrees, and there seemed to be some frozen water drops on the port & starboard cabin windows.

I'm assuming this is all from condensation, but would like a confirmation if I'm on track or not. If there are any ideas for helping limit this I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

Jeff McK
Formerly Event Horizon (sold)
C250 WK #805

Edited by - Jeff McK on 01/22/2005 17:24:37

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 20:30:33

I think there's not much you can do except try to keep a little heat in the boat. Most marine vendors sell little 100 watt stainless 'run always' heaters that may be enough to keep freezing condensation from forming inside your hull... they work OK around here but I don't know how well they would do in your circumstances... or if you even have shore power available at the boat.

On the Pacific Coast it rarely gets below freezing at the shoreline until you get up into Canada. Ice forming in the boat is something I usually don't have to deal with.

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 20:37:07

Wow! Sounds like a lot of water from condensation. I used to keep boats in the water in New York, and never had it that bad. Can you use electric during the winter? Folks I know used to put a 75 Watt PAR Lamp in the bilge area and leave it on, maybe a light bulb could save your water buildup, ron srsk Orion SW FL

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/22/2005 : 23:30:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jeff McK
 Time to demonstrate my ignorance...

I've got a boomtent covering the entire topsides, and the hatch cover canvas is in place.

I'm assuming this is all from condensation, but would like a confirmation if I'm on track or not. If there are any ideas for helping limit this I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Can you elaborate on the "boomtent covering the entire topsides", I am sure that seems a clear statement to you but I am not sure what you are saying. Presuming serious condensation is the source, (that is a lot of water though); if you have a large dark tarp over a significant portion of your boat, then I think solar gain becomes your culprit in the creation of such a significant temperature differential. Trying to protect the deck and cockpit is very desirable but you may need forgo it to stabilize your boat temperature and stop your problem. 'swhat I'm think'n anyway.

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2005 : 17:33:22

Frank,

Sorry for the confusion. Here is a link to the manufacturer's website showing an example of what I have.

http://www.faircloughsailmakers.com/winterpics2/CustonWinterCovers/tartan3500_jpg.html

Essentially, the medium blue tarp covers the topsides including the cockpit. It does NOT extend below the seam between the hull & topsides. The boat is oriented east-west, so gets some sun coming in the cabin windows to warm the interior. The seawater is partly frozen to about 3/4 inch thick, so provides quite a cooling effect.

Since the main hatch is completely covered on all sides, do you think removing the hatch cover tarp and sliding the hatch so there is a slight gap (but still locked) would allow some of the humid air to escape from the cabin?

There is shore power available, but I'll need to check with the marina owner about continuously running a small heater as ClamBeach suggested.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2005 : 19:34:22

Technically the topsides are the vertical part of the hull that extends from the waterline to the deck. Don't loose any sleep over that, most of us us the term loosely. The Tartan link looks like a giant green house to me, a beautiful one though! Maybe you should take your hatch boards out and just leave he canvas companionway cover to breathe. Have you spent any time under that cover? Isn't is surprisingly warm under there?
My first fall with my boat I was sleeping in the v-berth and the condensation was so bad it was raining in the v-berth. I have used one of the West Marine fan/heater humidity controllers ever since. It is on in my boat right now while it sits under its tarp in the driveway.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2005 : 19:53:52

That cover looks way too tight...a haven for condensation. IMHO, you need to open the boat up a bit, as Frank suggested, or raise the sides of the cover, or lay a huge pile of NACL on a piece of screen over a bucket to catch all that moisture...or a combination of the above. I opted for a raised cover and the salt and bucket.

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2005 : 20:46:20

Frank & Bert:

Thanks for the clarification on terminology. I thought the part above the joint was the "topsides".

The photo is a bit deceptive. The cover is cut to be snug to keep the snow & rain out, but it's not airtight. There are actually small gaps under the edges of the cover at the transom where the boarding ladder & outboard mount are located, and also at various points around the perimeter of the cover. There is a "door" on the starboard side of the cockpit where some air can get in the bottom edge as well. Yes, it is relatively warm underneath with no icy wind cutting through you. Kind of hard to appreciate it when the air temp is only 20 degrees.

I'm waiting to hear back from my marina manager on getting shore power for the electric dehumidifier option, but will try Frank's idea of pulling the hatch board & leave the cavas cover in place to improve airflow until then.

Thanks.

Edited by - Jeff McK on 01/24/2005 14:59:16

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2005 : 13:29:40

we've had reports about a lot of internal condensation this year, too. Seems thise winter has been a bit different than the past few, with lots of warm humid days followed by cold, and warmth all over again. What this does is build up humidity inside and it condenses when it gets cold again. The consensus was either or both: heat and ventilation.

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2005 : 14:58:00

To all who answered & offered advice:

I talked with my marina owner. He said this happened at his location a couple of years ago in similar conditions. Nobody expected it, so when it started to warm up there were a bunch of owners with floating mildew factories.

He concurred with the plan for installing the Turbo Dryer Dehumidifier (WM #255424), removing the hatch canvas (leaving the boom-tent in place), and propping the hatch back so there is a 1" gap for the warmed humid air to escape from the cabin.

I'll set it up this week & keep you posted on the results. Thanks again for your help.

Edited by - on

JJM
Navigator

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USA
170 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2005 : 15:45:16

Jeff,

I have the WM electric dehumidifier and it works resonably well. I bought it because I have heard that those dehumidifier granules can cause permanent unsightly damage to the interior sole should they tip over.

I was on my boat during the recent rainstorms here in California and I noticed that the interior walls of my boat were 'sweating' a bit, even with the dehumidifier running. However, after the rains stopped and I went back a few days later to survey the situation - no moisture remained, and the interior was unscathed!

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2005 : 15:51:02

JJM,

Thanks for first-hand report. I've got the granules sitting on a big plastic lid to catch the spills, but may toss them if the dehumidifier works well.

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2005 : 10:56:42

Jeff,

On SF Bay we don't have freezing temps as a rule, but humidity can quickly mildew and get stinky.

The PO had a couple of "golden rod heaters" that I continue to rig. They are about three feet long each and an inch in diameter, like a big brass stick with an electrical connection. They get warm to the touch, not hot. I suspend them a few inches above the floor, one near the head, one near the steps.

In previous winters, even with two DriZits I found some condensation on the inner side of the poptop. This year I added a circulating fan on a timer. It runs about an hour every four hours. The fan is also a heater, but I just use the fan part. When I go over and it is cold I can use both.

After several checks I have found no condensation. I still have an annoying window leak unless I pull the tarp far enough back to cover it.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2005 : 12:15:04

Jim,

I used to live in Sausalito when I was little, and always had visions of sailing the bay area. You've got a great location!

I had considered the "golden rods", but was not sure how effective they would be in my situation. The unit I'm getting has a fan in it to help move the warmed air. If I sit it on the forward part of the cabin floor & crack the main hatch a bit that ought to do a decent job clearing the humidity under the hatch.

Edited by - on

Sid
Navigator

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129 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2005 : 17:37:10

I went down to the slip last Saturday and found I had a 25' mold factory as well

. Heavy rains and the hot cold hot cold weather cycle resulted in six hours of scrubbing every inch of the interior. I had planned on installing an exhaust fan on my last trip for the spring rains, didn't know I would have such severe condensation problems(none like this last year)over the winter. Most likely compounded because I had left the heater off on the last trip.
At least she's nice and clean for the next sail. Just in time to revarnish my teak.

Edited by - on

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