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Sound off: Who has kept their original "to-hulls"

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albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/02/2005 : 23:36:35

Come on folks, don't be afraid to admit that you still have your original "to hulls"

!

My C-25 is having her hull repainted. While she's out, I had planned to replace the "to hulls". I removed the ball valves and inspected the "glassed in" 1/2 inch bronze pipes of both "to hulls".

I shook them, twisted, pulled. They are solidly in place. So much so that it looks like a significant amount of work to remove them.

I'm now considering leaving "as is". Has anyone else decided that their "to hulls" are in good enough condition to leave alone?

Also note that for swing keelers, such as mine, the keel cable goes thru an even larger "to hull". I've not heard of the keel cable "to hull" failing.

Edited: I just wanted to add that when removing the existing ball valves, I had to apply significant torque to remove them. The "to hulls" didn't budge.

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus 1984 C25 #4679

Edited by - albert on 02/03/2005 12:08:04

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 00:11:23

I replaced mine. Took a half-hour with an angle grinder followed by another half hour of rasp work from underneath the hull to remove the pipe remnants before I used the hole saw.

Would it have been ok?... probably.
Would I have slept well knowing it was there?... probably not.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 00:19:56

I have my original 1978 to hull (my boat only has one). I keep an eye on it. It is solid. No need to change out. Both gate valves work. I also still have the aluminum spreader sockets - the upgrade kit is in my desk drawer. Spike has stood on the sockets (all 110 lbs) and they didn't break. Saw no cracks when I had the mast down.

Edited by - on

Doug
Captain

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USA
457 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 00:50:54

NoetaHas 2 to Hulls: Sink drain and intake for the head. She also has a through hull for the 2" head outlet that's no longer used. There's also a through hull for the knot meter/ transducer. The only one that has ever leaked has been the 2" to hull. Also have the aluminum spreader brackets.

I'll change them all. Someday. Maybe...

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 07:43:14

I have what was stock on an '82. I believe they are to-hulls. They seem very strong. I think one big issue is how you store things. If you have your 20lb tool box sliding around where a to-hull is then some day you may have a problem. I do not allow anything around the forward to-hull and my West Marine dehumidifier (under a pound) is the heaviest thing under the galley.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 08:17:27

My to-hulls felt very solid and had no corrosion on them. I was just going to remove the gate valves, sandblast and clean them up or, replace them. When I tried to remove the first valve, the bronze nipple came right out of the hull with about 1/2 turn. This was the head sink drain.
I decided to replace all of them. The other two were a little more difficult to remove. I removed them just like unscrewing a pipe joint. There was no corrosion on the outside of the pipe, there just wasn't any bond left between the pipe and the glass. This boat has only been in fresh water and then is hasn't been in the water at all for the last 10 years.
I have the areas ready to install the new through hulls but didn't get it done before the cold weather moved in.
You can see what I have done so far here. I also had nothing else in the way, which made the job easier.
[url="http://home.wmis.net/%7Edhapp/through.hull.html"]Through Hull Replacement[/url]

Edited by - on

tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 09:48:04

Add my boat "CALISTA" '83 sWING to the list. I have the replacement parts from CD on board but the tu-hulls give too much resistance to remove them. When they are less secure I'll perform the replacement.

Val on the hard DAGNABIT

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 10:04:30

Freya has one to-hull under the galley ... it is solid as a rock. I check it often, and someday I will replace it, but it is waaaaaay down on my list of priorities. I keep a tapered wooden plug next to the to-hull in case my luck runs out.

Like Doug mentioned, the 2" opening for the knotmeter transducer on my boat has leaked in the past. I buried it in 4200, and that stopped the leaking. Since I've given up on the idea of repairing the old paddle wheel transducer, I'd like to permanently cap off the 2" opening, but I haven't been able to find a cap that fits. Does anyone know where I can get a cap with the proper threads and/or a plug for the hole?

Thanks!

Edited by - on

thacket3
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 10:30:39

Not related, but Frank, do you use your de-hummidifier during the summer while docked, or is it a winter storage thing.

Just curious. I have thought about getting one, but with the boat being less than airtight, wondered if it would make a difference.
Tim

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 10:51:20

I use my dehumidifier all winter long (of course, its San Diego) but it really helps keep the interior dry.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 12:14:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by thacket3
 Not related, but Frank, do you use your de-hummidifier during the summer while docked, or is it a winter storage thing.

Just curious. I have thought about getting one, but with the boat being less than airtight, wondered if it would make a difference.
Tim
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We sail From April through October. There are periods at both ends of the season where I use the dehumidifier. Usually it is when I stay over on the boat but sometimes I leave it running when I leave.

Edited by - on

tdannar
1st Mate

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USA
25 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 12:16:16

1724 still has original to-hulls. Only has one under sink and I assume two under cockpit scoopers.

The cockpit scoopers drain down thru the cockpit and thru the hull. Has anyone made a change to this and ran them straight out the back?

Terry

Edited by - on

clayC
Navigator

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USA
207 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 12:29:40

What about that knot meter? I have wondered about sealing off that hole. With the advent of GPS does any one use that Gage any more?

Clay C

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 13:33:45

Although the to-hulls are on the "list", North Star has the original to-hulls and gate valves.

Clay,

I installed a new knot meter last spring because it shows speed through the water while a GPS will only show speed over ground (SOG).

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 18:41:15

Is it my imagination or is everyone referring to a "thru-hull" as a to-hull?

Anyway, I have four hull openings on Gallivant. Two are transducers for the speed log and the depth sounder, and two are gate valves for the head and sink. I've checked and double-checked them every season and they remain sound after 15 years. I also have plugs attached to each in case of an emergency. Just a reminder.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2005 : 20:18:02

A too hull is a piece of pipe glassed to the hull. Thru hulls are flanged fittings sealed to the hull.

On top of the opening,there will be a valve. A gate valve is similar to a water hose valve. A ball valve will fully open or close with a 90 deg turn.

Thru hulls with ball valves are the modern way.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2005 : 01:20:52

Still have the original "to hulls" on Snowbird, 79 SK TR, but changed the gate valves after a guest opened the galley gate valve that was already open and then tried to put it back on and didn't bother to tell me. Later than evening spent spent a lot of time bailing water and finally made the discovery of the gate valve. The top of the gate valve will unscrew allowing the gate to come out and a wooden plug is hard to use in the top of a gate valve. I can now feel the ball valve handle to be sure if it is closed. After reading this topic though I will be checking the "to hulls" before spring. Going to replace the hose and clamps for the cable this year also. I also keeping the knot meter. Great topic, Jim Sweet

Edited by - on

mmac
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2005 : 09:13:30

Last year I noticed a lot of weeping around my to hulls. When the boat was out of the water for bottom painting in April, I had the yard replace them. Cost about 5 Boat units. The cost of boat upkeep is higher for those of us with 10 thumbs and poor grades in shop class.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2005 : 11:28:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mmac
 Last year I noticed a lot of weeping around my to hulls. When the boat was out of the water for bottom painting in April, I had the yard replace them. Cost about 5 Boat units. The cost of boat upkeep is higher for those of us with 10 thumbs and poor grades in shop class.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Harry Nilsson said it best "Jump into the fire...or you'll never be free". I have always figured that my level of concern more than made up for most people's expertise. You should pick something with a big reward and just do it; like cockpit speakers or new mast lights. You will be very proud of what you end up with.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2005 : 11:46:05

At the time I sold her, 9 months ago, #1205 still had original "to-hulls" for the keel cable, head sink drain, and galley sink/icebox drain. The original gate valves were still in place and seemed to be in decent condition. At the time I bought the boat, in 1996, the PO told me that as far as he knew, the boat had never been anywhere but Folsom Lake, so there was no salt water corrosion to any of the hardware. The boat has since been on San Francisco Bay and up in the San Juans a few times, so it has been exposed to salt water a few times, for up to a month or two at a time. Debbie, if you read this, you might want to check the to-hulls for tightness, and think about replacing the old gate valves with new stainless steel or Marelon ball valve seacocks. I replaced the original aluminum spreader sockets and 3/8" eye bolts with the Catalina Direct upgrade kit in '97 so you don't have to worry about them. The kit included the stainless steel spreader sockets, 1/2" eye bolt chainplates, and larger aluminum backing plates.

Edited by - on

cmckitrick
Navigator

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USA
117 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2005 : 13:19:09

I've only had my boat a year but I very much want to replace my thru hulls. Every thing is as is when it was made and 2/3 gate valves are frozen. Does a too-hull go through the hull? I am still not clear on the difference and I am still not sure what the valve under the head sink does. How many thru or too hulls does a C-25 have? I can only find two.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2005 : 14:50:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cmckitrick
 ...Does a too-hull go through the hull?...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No...a so called "to hull" does not go all the way through the hull, but is simply a piece of pipe glassed to the inside of the hull. An actual thru-hull has a flange and is inserted into a hole in the hull from the outside and then a nut is used to secure it from the inside.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cmckitrick
 ...How many thru or too hulls does a C-25 have? I can only find two.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The number of installed thru-hulls will vary depending on the options ordered when the boat was new. My boat has two...one for the sink and ice box and one for the head intake in the V-berth.

Edited by - on

cmckitrick
Navigator

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USA
117 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2005 : 14:53:50

Thanks for clearing that up.

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2005 : 15:33:23

My boat still has the to-hulls with marelon ball valves. One at the galley sink/ice box and one under the V berth for the head intake and sink drain. That's how it was when I bought it. Have a thru-hull for the knotmeter paddlewheel with an analog knotmeter-maybe it's original equipment.

I check the to-hulls often and they are solid. Changing to thru-hulls is on my to-do list, but it's down a ways from the top.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/04/2005 : 16:26:29

The day I got my 1979 C-25, my crew twisted off the handle of one of the stock gate valves while poking around getting to know the boat. (And she wasn't particularly ham fisted.) Later, while hauled out, I checked the strength of the "to-hulls". I was able to remove one with my bare hand, and the another required only a slight twist with channel-locks to come free.

I have since replaced my two original "to-hulls" and gate valves with teak-backed flush bronze thru-hulls and bronze/SS ball valve seacocks (oversizing the galley one), and added a third of that same configuration. I replaced the 1" scupper "to-hulls" with 1-1/2" flush Marlon thru-hulls and epoxy fiberglass backing plates. I cleaned, inspected, and reinforced the swing keel cable "to-hull". I (gasp!) added a similar "to-hull" at the front of the keel trunk for a keel position indicator. For that one, I used very heavy wall naval bronze pipe buried under many layers of fiberglass cloth and epoxy.

As near as I can tell, the original "to-hulls" were fabricated by drilling a hole in the hull, forcing a threaded pipe nipple to cut its own threads in the fiberglass, slathering a small anthill worth of gelcoat around the pipe inside the hull, and then grinding the outboard end of the pipe flush with the outer surface of the hull. A hardware store gate valve was screwed to the inboard end of the pipe nipple, and a hose barb screwed to the inboard side of the gate valve. The only attractive feature of this approach is its initial cost. In Nigel Calder's "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual" there's an illustration of how not to do a thru-hull. Even that worst case example is an improvement over the original C-25 "to-hulls". As you can probably guess by now, I'm not favorably impressed with Catalina "to-hulls".

But to each his own.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2005 : 08:49:35

Silver Girl still has her two original to hulls with Marelon ball valves; one for the head intake, and one for the galley sink/"icebox" drain. Both of them are as solid as a rock and I've wired wooden plugs to each just in case.

Still afloat.

Edited by - on

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