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Just Bought a Boat! - Photos Added!

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Rich G
Navigator

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226 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/18/2005 : 19:16:28

JUST SIGNED THE ACCEPTANCE SHEET ON BALANCE!!!!!

1984 C-25 standard rig, fin keel with no pop-top. The boat is in extremely clean condition with a new main, all new berth cushions and a new motor. $6,000.00. That's the good news.

The bad news is that the surveyor found two things that need rather immediate attention:

1. The hull and deck passed the percussion tests with flying colors, but the moisture meter readings around all of the deck fittings were a bit high. Nothing catastrophic, but high enough that he suggested they all be resealed and reseated within the next two-to-three seasons. No biggie on a 20+ year old boat.

2. This one is a bit more serious. There was a fair amount of water in the cockpit locker at the transom. It was gathering on the shelf that would have been used for the fuel tank in earlier models. He (the surveyor) thought that it was getting in from one of two places. a) Possibly getting in from under the brass draining holes in the cockpit since their seals looked suspect. b) He thinks that there was a repair done where the cockpit floor meets the transom. He thinks the repair was expertly done except for the fact that silicone was used as the sealant. He thinks that seal could also be suspect. He said it's not a big deal yet, but left untreated would become one quickly since the cockpit floor was showing high readings on the moisture meter.

Has anybody had similar issues with their transom? He suggested replacing the drainage fittings and resealing them as well as trying to reseal the old repair.

Next it's off to West Marine with my credit card!!!!!

Rich

Cerberus
Hull #4695
1984 SR/FK No Pop-Top

Edited by - Rich G on 02/22/2005 13:52:27

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/18/2005 : 20:06:58

Rich,

Congratulations! And welcome to the best darned sailboat owners' association on the planet! (You did mail in your dues, right?)

It sounds to me like your surveyor has some good suggestions. One thing to take seriously is the potential for water to get into your plywood deck core through deck hardware that needs rebedding. Rotted core is a nightmare to repair!

After replacing the plywood foredeck core ahead of the anchor locker on my C-25, I took firm measures to reduce the chance of ever having to deal with that again. I removed all my deck fittings for rebedding (except the genoa tracks which are a real pain to get at from below). While all that stuff was off the deck, I did the following procedure to all the holes.

Drilled out all the mounting holes to twice original diameter from the top, through the plywood core, to the fiberglass deck liner. Note: for items with a bolt pattern that needs to be maintained (such as stanchions), leave at least two holes, or half the holes, original until the other hole(s) for that item are back to original diameter and location. Taped over each hole from the bottom. Coated the inside of each hole with WEST epoxy. While that was still soaking in, I mixed up some more epoxy with milled fiberglass additive. I used this thicked mixture to completely fill, and slightly overfill, each of the oversized holes. After that cured, I carefully sanded down any high spots using a drum sander attachment in a hand drill motor. Next, I redrilled the filled holes to original diameter and location using the deck hardware as a drill jig, and cut a shallow countersink from the top to create a small O-ring of bedding around the fasteners where they go from the hardware into the deck. I then repeated the preceeding steps on the remaining original holes. Finally, I reinstalled the hardware using polysulfide bedding goo. I masked the deck around each piece for a neater finished appearance, and to reduce clean up. To form an extra thick gasket of goo, I shimmed the hardware up off the deck using just the very tip end of popsicle sticks as far as practical from the fasteners until the bedding had cured. (Then I slipped out the popsicle sticks and snugged the nuts from below while an assistant held the heads on deck from moving.) By sliding the tip of a knife blade around the edges of the hardware before peeling the masking tape, I ended up with no unsightly bead of squeezed out goo.

This may sound like a lot of work, but it isn't once you get going and do it all at once. The result is cast in place fiberglass bushings around each deck thru-bolt. This is much stronger than the original installation, because the bushing prevents the fasteners from compressing the core. The hardware stays sealed better, and if it does leak, the rain can't soak into the plywood core. About the only reasons I can imagine that boat builders don't already do this is that it adds to the cost of production without adding coresponding showroom appeal to the product.

Regarding your leaks around the cockpit area, be very careful not to let water get into the core of the cockpit sole. That would be horrible place to have to replace damaged core!

Happy boat fixing!

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - Leon Sisson on 02/18/2005 20:10:50

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/19/2005 : 15:47:00

Congrats Rich! Leon is the master thru-bold guru... His C-25 will be in a museum a few centuries from now--if it's not out on the water!

The inside flanges of the cockpit drain tubes are common causes of water entering at the transom, but I'm not sure that would explain it being on the locker shelf. The stern rail might be the culprit, or possibly the swim ladder (if it's on that side). You don't by chance have the vent hoods on the coamings, do you? I think they were omitted when the cockpit gas locker was added.

As a temporary repair on the drains, you can just wipe a little seal around the inside flange with your finger tip.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/19/2005 15:51:29

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/20/2005 : 10:17:08

Congratulations, Rich! Welcome to the fleet!

Edited by - on

oldsalt
Admiral

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USA
578 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2005 : 12:12:44

Welcome aboard and get your wallet ready for some serious action as you look over some of the interesting mods and upgrades you'll find on this site. And of course there are also all the toys you'll need.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2005 : 08:11:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Rich G
 1984 C-25 standard rig, fin keel with no pop-top.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What is the hull number of this boat? I didn't think that there were any non-pop-top C-25's built after about 1981/82

Edited by - on

Jody
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2005 : 10:20:47

Congratulations Rich! I too have a 1984 C-25 standard rig, fin keel but I do have the pop top. As others' have said this site is truly a wonderful resource -- read all that it has to offer.

Edited by - on

Rich G
Navigator

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226 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2005 : 10:30:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lcharlot

What is the hull number of this boat? I didn't think that there were any non-pop-top C-25's built after about 1981/82
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Manufacturer's Hull No.: CTYK4695M84K

Also, there are no vents on the coamings. The leak did not seem to be coming from the swim ladder. I suppose it's possible that it's coming from the stern rail, but the locker shelf itself was filled with rain water.

If I can figure out how to post pictures, I'll post one of the ugliness down there and the beauty of the rest of the boat.

Edited by - on

Rich G
Navigator

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226 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2005 : 13:51:38

Here are some pictures of the boat:

Water in the Cockpit Locker:

Suspect Seals in Transom:

You can't really see the detail in this photo, but the seals in question are on the left side of the photograph.

Interior Looking Forward:

Interior Looking Aft:

The boat is still under shrink-wrap and I forgot to take pictures when we uncovered it for the survey (BONEHEAD), but I'll add exterior shots as soon as I get'em . . .

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2005 : 08:27:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Rich G
 
Also, there are no vents on the coamings.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am pretty sure that the coaming vents are only on the Mk. I - the first version of the boat that did not have a separate gas tank locker.
These boats are from model year 1977 to 1980 (roughly). Your boat is a Mk. II. Since the gas tank is in it's own locker that opens directly into the cockpit, instead of being in the lazarette, the cowl vents are not needed.

Edited by - on

Rich G
Navigator

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226 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2005 : 02:47:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Leon Sisson
 
This may sound like a lot of work, but it isn't once you get going and do it all at once. The result is cast in place fiberglass bushings around each deck thru-bolt.
-- Leon Sisson
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Leon-

This is pretty much what I was planning on doing and yes, the ordeal does seem a bit daunting to me. But hey, working on the boat is supposed to be half the fun isn't it?

By the way, how long did this whole procedure take you?

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2005 : 00:30:31

Rich G,<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Leon-

This is pretty much what I was planning on doing and yes, the ordeal does seem a bit daunting to me. ... By the way, how long did this whole procedure take you?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It's hard to remember or estimate a total time for the whole job because I fitted it in with a lot of other work I was doing to the boat at the time on evenings and weekends.

I'd guess a half to whole day with an assistant to remove all the deck hardware. some hard to get to items, like the stern rail, can be time consuming to remove and install. Speaking of that, if your C-25 has the cast in tapped brass backing plates for the aft stern rail stanchions, you might want to leave those alone, and just flex the rail enough do the forward ones.

A couple hours to over drill and tape half the holes. A couple hours to mix and pour epoxy in those holes. Then wait a day for that to cure. Then maybe a few hours to sand level and redrill those holes. Then repeat for the other half of the holes. Most of a day to reinstall the deck fittings with an assistant. Maybe three days actual work total? A week elapsed time working evenings and weekends? It's mostly easy work.

When you get to the lower chainplates, indicate the center with crossed pencil lines on the deck before overdrilling. After sanding down the filler, redraw the missing intersection using what's left of the ends of the lines, and redrill there.

For the rudder gudgeon holes, tape over the inside flat. Form a tiny funnel on the outside with a curved or kinked piece of tape. Carefully pour the filler into that funnel. After it cures, peel tape and carefully drum sand just like on deck. The gudgeons can take three passes to complete, as you need to preserve two holes at all times for alignment. Or you can trust in the crosshairs technique, above. Another trick that might help is to trace around them with a pencil before loosening the bolts to remove them the first time. This would be an opportunity to upgrade to 5/16" bolts here.

The bow rail is another three hole item that may benefit from three passes, it sort of depends on how springy yours is. Mine was bent before I got the boat, so I used two bolts in each stanchion to force it into alignment while redrilling the third hole.

On the earlier boats, this would be a fine time to switch from lag bolts to thru-bolts at the mast step, and to upgrade the lower shroud chainplates (from 3/8" to 1/2" I think).

I didn't do the poured bushing thing to the teak handrails, because they're not so heavily loaded, and it's so hard to reestablish the exact hole locations. There's a method involving drilling 1/8" holes all the way up through the handrails using a drill press, and then running a long 1/8" pilot drill back down through those into the deck before filling the holes in the top of the rails with epoxy thickened with teak flour. If anybody sees you going to that much trouble, they might haul you away in a straight jacket.

I just over drilled those holes in the deck a 1/64" or so and mopped epoxy inside the holes with cotton swabs to seal the core. When that cured, I redrilled to original size which mostly just reamed out any epoxy stiffened wood splinters.

-- Leon Sisson

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