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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

quick release pins

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TRogers
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/21/2005 : 00:14:41

After upgrading my CDI furler bearings with my boat on the hard, I discovered that my pin for attaching the forestay to the bow had disappeared somewhere in transit from the marina.

I noted that while some of my pins were the simple ones secured by cotter pins, a few of them were quick release types which I much appreciate. Figured that I would replease them all with quick release pins. Specifically, the couple of quick release pins are push button AVK 5/16" with a 1" shaft (part # AVK5M1.00).

Priced these at West Marine at around $21 a piece. Found some at SailNet for around $10, but not in the right size (possibly closing them out?). Found another site selling them at $28.

Anyone have a source on these at a reasonable price? Or suggestions on what you are using that you like?

Tom Rogers
Tack n Two
Spokane, WA

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2005 : 07:50:46

I would never trust my rigging to the push pins. I deal with them all the time and frequently find defects with them.

1. The cap with the pushbutton can unscrew causing the ball to be in the released mode.

2. They are hollow????? Lower tensile strength???

3. Any defect with the recepticle will allow the balls to slip.

4. $20 buys a lot of cotter pins!

Just my oppinion.

Tom.

Edited by - on

Jeff McK
Captain

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USA
389 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2005 : 18:46:06

I would steer clear of the Quick Release pins for the reasons Tom cited. Having it fail during a sail will ruin your day big time. IMHO, you are better off investing in extra cotter pins AND an extra SOLID pin. If ya don't have one you just KNOW it'll disappear at the least opportune time.

Edited by - on

TRogers
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2005 : 21:12:03

Are you familiar with the M type pins? See http://bosunsupplies.com/products2.cfm?product=QRPin

The one I have doesn't seem to have a screw off top that I can see. Seem to be solid, but they have to get the spring in there somehow?
It appears that while the outer shell is hollow, there is a solid rod that fills the center that has a notch in it that fills the hollow area and pushes the little balls up and down. It would appear that the spring is in the thick area outside of the stress zone. Exactly what that means for the strength, I'm not positive.

The other quick release pins shown on the page are priced much lower and from the limited info I can glean from the pictures, I suspect that they would have a lesser strength and would be prone to much of what you talk about, however that is just conjecture on my part.

I definitely agree with you on the statement that you can buy a lot of cotter pins for $20. I was shocked when I saw the pricing and it has definitely made me think twice about using them.

So do those of you that do a lot of trailering use the solid pins with cotter pins? The reason I got onto this, was that when I stepped my mast last fall, I ended up doing my fair share of cussing and swearing at the cotter pins that I had to use pliers to get out. Seems like those who trailer a lot must have some secret or maybe just a lot of patience.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2005 : 22:02:56

Tom, there are many who have claimed to use quick pins on the headstay with success and I can't recall any one admitting a failure from using one... but my guess is that they wouldn't be "quick" to post the failure.

I trailer sail exclusively and use several locking quick pins, but not at the forestay. I just don't trust the quality of the clevis hole staying within the tolerance to keep the pin captive.

My answer to the forestay problem is to use a key ring for the cotter pin. It functions identical to to a circle clip which of course would be too light for the headstay pin.

I can't recall if I had to drill out the pin a little, what I do know is that it has worked well for many years.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 02/21/2005 : 22:46:21

I don't know of anybody having failures from using push pins.

I am an aircraft mechanic and know what is a good mechanical idea and what is not.

I drop the rig and trailer a couple times a year. I have no trouble whatsoever with cotter pins. If you put them in and bend them straight, they will bend back and come out easily. I also have 3 pliers in the tool box. Needlenose for most everything. Linesman for straightning an errant pin. And a goor pair of wire cutters that will snip the pin off close the base.

When I trailer, I unscrew the t-buckles and leave the lower t-bolt on the deck and only disconnect the forestay. If you are cotter pin challenged, what about a high quality bolt and locknut? The only issue would be the nylon nut wearing out. That would be way better and cheaper than pushpins.

Tom.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2005 : 00:05:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by atgep
 I don't know of anybody having failures from using push pins.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

We have a Catalina 250WB "E-Ticket Ride" in our sailing club; when the boat was first equipped with a CDI furler, the owner was using a Quick Pin on the headstay. One day, the back-and-forth rotation of the furler somehow "worked" the Quick Pin back out of the toggle - apparently the little ball was not strong enough to hold it. I am not sure if the mast was bent (ruined) when the headstay failed, but that was certainly the last time that boat ever had a Quick Pin on ANY of the standing rigging connections. Personally, I don't trust even regular rigging pins on Furler-equipped headstays. The cotter pin or ring doesn't seem very strong on fittings that are subjected to rotation from the furler. I use a stainless steel 5/16" bolt and Nylock nut - there's no way that bolt will come apart with a nylock cinched tight on the end of it!

Edited by - on

TRogers
1st Mate

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USA
90 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2005 : 11:12:05

Thank all. Good input.

Come to think of it, the quick release pins are only on two of the shrouds, none were used on the forestay which from your input would have the highest stress and would be most critical in a failure. Makes sense.

Since I don't step my mast all that often, I think I'll save my money for other more interesting things.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2005 : 18:05:05

Tom, the two places on the shrouds that I can think that quick pins could be used are the split backstay sections and I do use locking quick pins there and believe them to be safe for a couple of reasons.
<ul><li>The swaged fittings are rugged and have very close tolerance holes and are not given to wollering out and losing tolerance to hold the pin captive</li><li>the backstay is somewhat redundant anyway and the mast won't fall if the backstay should fail</li></ul>

I also use a long locking quick pin at the goose neck. If using one there, tie a lanyard of small nylon line to the bail on the quick pin and the shank of the slug stopper. Neither will need be out at the same time and thus it will keep both safe from deep sixing.

Edited by - on

tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2005 : 01:08:07

Tom I echo what was said above regarding using quick pins for rigging. We used to use them on our Hobie for the running rigging. Every once in a while they would release. It is frustrating to pull in the main and have it not connected to the traveler. Its catastrophic if the forestay comes loose.

I keep my boat on the trailer too and have a CDI. A few things we did to make stepping easier. I got a longer pin. I added washers, per CDI instructions, at the end of the forestay. This gives you a little more slack to work with. I use a heavy gauge stainless cotter ring, like a key ring. I keep spares on board. I use an A frame, so I can snug the rig forward and cleat it off giving me the slack I need to get the pin in. Goes easy enough now.

Edited by - on

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