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Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/01/2005 : 15:25:50

Why does the Capri 25 not have a National Assocation that is not taken care of, or even reconized by Catalina? I have found many articles on the Capri 26, 22, and other boats produced by Catalina.
If anyone has any clue to this matter please fill me in.

A wandering sailor

C.S. McKillip
Ericson 33

Edited by - Ericson33 on 03/03/2005 01:32:06

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2005 : 16:25:05

Hi neighbor (literally),

Hey Chris, where do you keep your boat? Windycrest? She looks to be a beauty! A friend of mine has a Capri 26 and has been asking the same question as you.

There is currently an initiative to have the Capri 25 group join this Association. I guess that would make us the Catalina/Capri 25/250 National/International Association; like we're having some kind of identity crisis. Anyway, any help or ideas you would like to give toward making this happen should be directed to our Secretary, Frank Hopper at fhopper at cox.net (replace at with @, of course).

Fair winds,

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2005 : 17:28:48

Pure speculation... when Catalina bought Capri...it continued building the 26 for a time and Bill Holcomb speculated that is one reason for closing the C25 line. My point is I'm not sure Catalina ever produced the Capri 25?

Having said that... Currently any one can join this association as an associate member and enjoy all the activity except holding an office. Why not join up and get others to do the same and if there is enough interest, lobby for a seperate forum as the c25 and 250 have.

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 03/01/2005 17:36:50

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2005 : 18:08:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Capri25
 Why does the Capri 25 not have a National Assocation that is not taken care of, or even reconized by Catalina? I have found many articles on the Capri 26, 22, and other boats produced by Catalina.
If anyone has any clue to this matter please fill me in.

A wandering sailor
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Chris,
Welcome. We all wonder why the Catalina 25 is not mentioned in the official Catalina History, we are conspicuously absent. I wish I had a chronology of the period from 75-95. I seem to recall everyone considering the Capri 25 a Catalina design from the start, (not F.Butler though) I remember it as a reaction to the incredible success of the J-24.
Our Commodore is trying to discuss merging the Capri people with our own. We have not heard an update on the progress. We think the typical Capri 25 owner would be a tremendous asset to our organization and that we could provide the cohesion and exposure that the owners lack at this time.

I looked at your site. Wow, how wonderful. I am a Mac user and as such fear no software. I use a very old CAD program called mini-CAD and have many designs of my own. Mine are mostly garden homes for limited lots. Designing is very addictive. We built only one, (in '89), and it turned out to be hard to sell when we were ready to move out. I fell pray to making it "my perfect house" which others did not agree was as brilliant as I thought it was. We did love it though. It is hard to design for the other guy.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2005 : 18:29:13

I just looked up the Capri 25 on Yachtworld, and credit for the design of the Capri 25 is given to Frank Butler, but, if memory serves, I don't think that's correct. I vaguely recall hearing at the time that it was designed by Jim Holder, who has worked for Catalina for many years. I remember a story that made the rounds when the Capri 25 first came on the market. Supposedly, the boat came about as a result of a bar bet, that Holder could design a 25' boat that could beat the J24, was built better and cost less. I never heard who made the bet with Holder, or whether anyone ever paid off on it.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
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USA
1768 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2005 : 19:00:05

... Why not join up and get others to do the same and if there is enough interest, lobby for a seperate forum as the c25 and 250 have. - Arlyn

I think you're onto something there, Arlyn ... that sounds like an EXCELLENT idea!

Edited by - Buzz Maring on 03/01/2005 19:00:40

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2005 : 20:23:32

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Buzz Maring
 ... Why not join up and get others to do the same and if there is enough interest, lobby for a seperate forum as the c25 and 250 have. - Arlyn

I think you're onto something there, Arlyn ... that sounds like an EXCELLENT idea!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There is a protocol to everything. There is a very active group http://www.wyc.org/capri25/ and another fledgling group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Capri25/.

The board voted to pursue this at the first board meeting. We need to respect and honor their organizations and their calendars. I had hoped that Don would have something on this for us by now but the ball is in his court and I am sure he is working on it. It will be wonderful if Capri 25 owners choose to join us on their own but we will not usurp the prerogatives of the people who have worked for years to support the design.

Frank Hopper
Secretary
Catalina 25-250 National Association

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/01/2005 : 22:55:15

Frank, I'm confused... a guy using the name wandering sailor inquires and is seeking association with others who own his design... in your first post in this thread, you fail to point him towards associations that he is seeking for which you are aware.

Did I miss something?

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2005 : 00:03:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">There is a protocol to everything. There is a very active group http://www.wyc.org/capri25/ and another fledgling group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Capri25/.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As for the site at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Capri25/ I started this group. I had owned the Capri 25 for about a month and also owned a San Juan 24. The SJ24 Group was on yahoo also and it was a great chance to review ideas, and thoughts back and forth Just like this site is. What I mean is you post something and you get a reply, I had to wait for days to get a response. The WYC Site is really for the members at WYC. altho they ask for outside owners to post on there site, they also have an inside forum and emails going back and forth that the NON Members never get to read. Information is very important to me and I like to share with everyone. If I can solve a problem the first thing I do is to tell someone about it. The is a National Website at www.capri25.net This to is run by one of the WYC members. I belive it to be a store front for the National regatta held at WYC. I want the Capri 25's to be a bound group of people interested in promoting our boats to others. I also want an Assocation that collects dues and subscribes to "Main Sheet mag". At this time I have no where to go except for another make of a Catalina boat. I will gladly join your group, share my ideas, and promote Catalina Sailboats. I dont know the process of starting a Capri 25 Assocation, But I do know how to use this computer. thank you all for all of your help.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2005 : 00:16:09

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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892 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2005 : 00:18:34

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2005 : 00:19:55

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2005 : 00:20:16

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2005 : 02:32:39

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Hi neighbor (literally),

Hey Chris, where do you keep your boat? Windycrest? She looks to be a beauty! A friend of mine has a Capri 26 and has been asking the same question as you.

There is currently an initiative to have the Capri 25 group join this Association. I guess that would make us the Catalina/Capri 25/250 National/International Association; like we're having some kind of identity crisis. Anyway, any help or ideas you would like to give toward making this happen should be directed to our Secretary, Frank Hopper at fhopper at cox.net (replace at with @, of course).

Fair winds,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes I am at Windycrest. Live at 71st and Memorial - Mingo. Are you on Keystone, Grand lake, Tinnkiller? I have been at Windycrest for 2 years now. Bought our first boat from the MS fundraiser. Sailed All last year on a S2 7.9 and I am in the process of racing the Capri 25.

Edited by - on

Sea Trac
Master Marine Consultant

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Vanuatu
1357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2005 : 07:19:02

Antares is on Grand Lake at Masthead Point Marina outside of Ketchum. I live near 41st and Harvard, and work downtown. As you are probably aware, the sailing community in Tulsa is fairly large and active, but not necessarily very organized. Perhaps we should explore the possibilities there, as well.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2005 : 10:47:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Antares is on Grand Lake at Masthead Point Marina outside of Ketchum. I live near 41st and Harvard, and work downtown. As you are probably aware, the sailing community in Tulsa is fairly large and active, but not necessarily very organized. Perhaps we should explore the possibilities there, as well.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just a little background information on my family. My father's name is Mike McKillip. He used to sail on grand lake out of Arrowhead back in the late 70's. He has won 3 North Americans in the Mini-ton class 78,79,80 and the Worlds in Scottland in 1980. He had a boat named Mr Bill's Dog. It was a custom built cold mold wood/fiberglass hull design by Bruce Kelly. My Father and Bruce Built the boat in the back yard of Kelly's house. Mike was diagnosed in 1974 with MS. he is now a Quad and is bed ridden. I had always been around sailboats, we had a cabin at the end of Drownding Creek and grew up sailing Lasers and Nacra's. Man has Grand grown. I had always wanted to get a sailboat and now have 3 at this time. A 1975 San Juan 24, 1980 Capri 25 and a 1985 C-Scow. I joined Windycrest because of its racing programs, and the activities. We are a very active club. The spring series starts March 20th here on Keystone. Right now my wife and I are racing on a friends S2 7.9. We are taking the learn as you go technique and the beer is free:). Last year was the first time out racing and it was a blast. We finished 4th overall for the Fall series and 4th at the MS Regatta. My wife and I both are on the Board for the MS Regatta this year, and I take care of Windycrest's website. I would love to be able to get the people from Grand Lake and Keystone together. I tell you its a small world out there.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2005 : 10:49:36

If we ask "What would a group of Capri 25 owners add to the mix" that presently exists on the Catalina 25-250 forum, I think we would have to say that they would increase the total base of sailing knowledge of all the forum's participants. That means there would be more people with more knowledge about maintenance issues, sailing and seamanship, racing, navigation, rules of the road, trailers, cruising, and all the other subjects we like to discuss on this forum. It would improve the quality of discussion and the depth of information available. Also, there would be more people to write articles for the Mainsheet, and people who would be willing to serve as officers in the National Association. (Although there are presently plenty of people who want to serve as officers, there have been times in past years when it was difficult to find people willing to serve.) If there are enough Capri 25 owners to justify it, they could race in a separate class at our national regatta. That would increase the overall attendance at the event and make it a more lively event. They would not constitute a financial burden on the Catalina 25-250 National Association. On the contrary, their membership and dues would increase the association's annual income. This is not, and never will be, a profit-making Association, but even a small increase in income will enable the Association additional resources to support annual events, like the regatta and perhaps a fleet cruise. It sounds like it would be a very good move for the National Association.

Edited by - on

coach
Navigator

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USA
231 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2005 : 13:08:50

I think it would be great to add these boats and their owners to the association. We could also add their own sailing class at nationals.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/02/2005 : 14:57:33

It is great to hear such support for our commodore's effort to grow our organization. When Don reports back we will know how to proceed.

Edited by - on

Waterboy
Navigator

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USA
204 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 02:32:37

Welcome Capri25. Nothing like making a splash on entry! Hope to hear more from you.

Edited by - on

osmepneo
Past Commodore

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USA
1420 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 09:28:36

The ball is currently in (at this point) the WYC which has a fleet of 36 Capri 25's. I have talked to Mark Hammet about exploring moves toward some kind of merger, which would provide the Capri owners with access to our events and Mainsheet. He seemed interested.

I said we would be willing to open a Capri 25 discussion group, have them participate in our Association Nationals, and incorporate their strict design rules into the our standards. (NOTE. We are not strictly one design - duh.)

The Capri fleet at WYC has a meeting in a couiple of weeks and Mark said they would discuss it and that he would get back in touch with me.

That aside, other Capri 25 owners are welcome on our forum and if we know we have an adequate number we can provide a separate forum for them, like the 25's and 250 only sections that we now have. Capri 25 owners could join our National Assoiciation currently as Associate Members, and participate in "sanctioned" c25/250 events. This would also provide Capri owners the quarterly publication, Mainsheet, and our e-mail newsletter, TellTale. I would be willing to allow the Capri 25 (and I think the board would concur) to compete at our Nationals. WYC has scheduled Capri Nationals for September, so the competeing Capri's might be racing for a National Championship, but that would depend on how our talks are proceeding.

IF a merger takes place our board was talking about calling the resulting Association "The Catlaina 25 Built" International Association."

I think this is worth pursueing and will continue the dialogue, and am interested in hearing from Capri owners who are part of our discussions (as well as 25 and 250 owners).

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 09:53:01

I'm sure I'm the one missing something here, but I do not understand why this hinges on the WYC regardless of their size. Don't take me wrong, I'm glad you are talking with them and that things look to be moving in a positive direction. There is no doubt that their inclusion would be an enhancement to this association. However, they are a local group, which I can't join even though I own a Capri 25. They aren't a national group. Unless you are in the local fleet, you can't even join their mailing list. There may be 36 Capri's in that group but there are a lot more than that scattered elsewhere. I think the Capri 25 group on Yahoo is at 20 members currently, though some of them are likely WYC members as well. Chris has done a lot of work promoting this Capri 25 group and it is not only growing but already has a useful and expanding library of technical articles and files related specifically to the Capri 25. It is not constrained by location.
The concern I have here is that if this merger with the WYC falls through for some reason, where will that leave the rest of the Capri 25 owners who are not a part of that club, yet will have no say in whether the merger goes through or not. It's their club and they have the right to make that decision, but as Chris said in starting this thread, there needs to be a national group for the Capri 25. If it is part of this association, I think that would be best.
Again, none of what I am saying here is meant as a criticism of anyone or anything, I'm just trying to get a view of the whole picture of how these things work and what the options will be depending on the potetial outcomes currently under consideration.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 11:26:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I think this is worth pursueing and will continue the dialogue, and am interested in hearing from Capri owners who are part of our discussions (as well as 25 and 250 owners).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If the 36 members of the WYC would join the C25-250 National Association, that would be a good addition. After the merger is complete, the present local members of the WYC would probably like to continue their local organization and activities, and could then submit an application to become a new local fleet of the Nat'l. Assn.

I think the WYC should proceed with their plans to hold their National regatta in September of this year, if they want to do so. That event should only be cancelled and the Capris should only race as a separate class in this year's C25-250 Nat'l. Regatta at the WYC's option. We should be careful not to cause the WYC people who are currently planning that event to feel that we are "taking the event away from them." Next year, their national regatta should be held in conjunction with our's, but this year, it should be entirely their choice as to how they want to do it.

In order to merge the two organizations, we need to deal with the existing Class rules and the existing By-laws of each organization. The class rules specify the design limitations of the boats themselves, and the By-laws specifies the manner in which our respective national organizations are governed.

Presently, the C25's and C250's each have their own, separate design class rules, which are posted on this website. All we would have to do in that regard is to publish the Capri 25 design class rules on our website. Neither our rules nor the Capri rules need to be changed to bring the Capris under the umbrella of our association, unless there is some specific provision of the Capri rules that conflicts with our practices. (For example, if their rules require that their national regatta be run in a certain season of the year other than when we conduct ours, that conflict would have to be resolved.)

Their by-laws probably specify who can serve as national officers, and how and when they are elected, and other matters relating to the organization of their national association. If they are going to be governed in the future by our national association, as is the case with the C25 Class and the the C250 Class, then the existing Capri 25 by-laws should be reviewed, and should probably be amended or repealed eventually. (It would make sense for them to amend their by-laws, and use them as the basis for the organization of their local fleet.)

The name of the new conglomerate should try to incorporate all the three design classes as much as possible. I don't personally have a problem with the suggestion that we call it "The Catalina 25 Built International Association," but some C250 owners and Capri owners might feel that it sounds like the association only includes Catalina 25s. Another possible name is "The Catalina/Capri 25-250 International Association." It is more inclusive of all three design classes. If anyone has any other suggestions for the name of the association, or has a preference for one of these suggestions, now would be a good time to offer your thoughts.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 12:17:52

We have one Capri 25 at NSA that would definately rac; they do every Wednesday night and every regatta we have. Three boats make a start. If we have three Capri 25s at the nationals this summer I will give them a start. What we call what award the winner would be a decision of the board.

Edited by - on

coach
Navigator

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USA
231 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 12:33:07

Catalina 25/250 International Association still works. I mean they are still 25's.

Edited by - on

Ericson33
Admiral

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USA
892 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 14:21:17

We have 3 Capri 25 here at Windycrest. Does that make us a One Design Fleet? Who do we talk to to become a fleet? I don't want to step on WYC feet. I don't want to cause any kind of argument over where there races are held. I want to become a member of a Capri 25 National Association. Thats it. I want my boat listed on the roster and my name on the list. WYC has pulled together a great number of Capri 25's and they are very active in thier racing. I know WYC's fleet has a blast with the Capri 25 just by reading thier posts and going over thier website reading about the Capri. I just would like a Forum that supports the Capri 25 and I have done that at Yahoo. I cant post images at WYC, upload important files to share, or start a database of owners and what port they sail from. I don't want to be the bad guy here and it seem like I keep poking the fire.... Thats not my goal. I thank you all for all of the support you have given me and for the other scattered Capri 25's out there.

Below is the One Design rules from Capri I recived from Catalina direct when I first bought my boat. WYC's rules are revised in some parts BUT THIS IS FROM CATALINA.

Edited by - on

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