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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

pintle wear/failure

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dave1948
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/03/2005 : 09:11:33

My am in the process of repairing my rudder and was wonderinig if anybody has ever heard or had pintle failure (ie) the pin breaking loose from the bracket; mine seem pretty sturdy but I just thought I'd ask.

Dave

cat 78

Edited by - on

thacket3
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 09:38:56

If you do a search of the archives here, you will see that is kind of a "high priority" replacement suggestion. Catalina Direct sells a good replacement for this.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 11:58:16

Hi Dave,welcome.
The part which tends to wear and get replaced is the gudgeons. Replacing the lower gudgeon is a no brainer and the upper requires adding an access port to the transom in the area of the Catlina model plate in your cockpit. Rather than go to the hassle of replacing the upper gudgeon some people bore it out to accept a bushing that can be had at a local hardware store. catalinadirect.com has replacements that are considerably stronger than the originals. I have not heard of pintles wearing but I am sure it has happened to some.
If you want more detailed info on replacing the gudgeons just ask.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 15:47:18

Fleet 7 member Mike has a pintle break on his 1979. Caused quite a nightmare trying to get back in with a highly marginal rudder at night steering by outboard in moderate winds and lumpy seas. Outboard took some real chunks out of the rudder.....

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Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 15:47:46

The Catalina Direct gudgeons are considerably stronger than stock. they have a bushing, and gussett plates which make it stronger.

So the pintle now is in the nylon (or whatever it is) bushing, and works really well, The bushing also extends up, so the weight of the rudder is now on the bushing, and no friction.

My old gudgeons had worn out holes, and there was play in the hole.

I also drilled out the gudgeons and used 5/16" machine bolts, instead of 1/4" machine screws. Quite bombproof, which is good because I use a mast up when rigging, and it holds the weight of the mast really well.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2005 : 08:33:46

I experienced a broken lower pintle on my '86 Catalina 22 in Lake Tahoe once. The weld between the rudder strap and the pin in what actually broke. I was able to fix the problem temporarily with a stainless steel bolt of the same diameter as the pin (I don't remember what size it was, 3/8" or 1/2"?). That got me through the rest of the weekend, then I replaced the whole pintle/strap assembly the next weekend. I plan on installing the heavy-duty gudgeons on my '89WK next winter. A few boats in my sailing club have them and the owners say they are a big improvement.

Edited by - on

jwilliams
Captain

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USA
357 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2005 : 12:35:48

Dave,

Yes, check your pintles. Also check to see if your gudgeon screws are loose!!!

A more frequent danger is that on some boats the machine screws that hold the gudgeons to the transom work loose and can fall out. I lost two of the three screws on my lower gudgeon while beating north in SF Bay and the play in the tiller became alarming enough for me to look over the stern. I motored home.

The best fix (and I strongly recommend it) is to drill through the transom, install a backer plate and bolts to replace the screws. For the upper gudgeon you will have to install an access on the inside of the transom.

There are several discussions in the archives on this.

Jim Williams
Hey Jude C25fk 2958
SF Bay

Edited by - on

mmac
Navigator

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USA
168 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2005 : 12:45:32

Dave,

As Jim mentioned I had a pintle failure at sea a few months back. The lower pintle had rusted clear through and sheared off at the top of the gudgeon. Because my boat is always in the water, I didn't inspect it. However, you wouldn't have noticed a problem by just eyeballing the pintle.

I replaced everything with the pintles and gudgeons from CD. I had to cut a hole in the transom to do the upper gudgeon( I installed the inspection plate from CD). I used the old gudgeons turned backwards as backing plates for the new ones. I also used new nuts and bolts to reattach everything.

Your boat is a year older than mine and I don't know its history. New pintles and gudgeons plus an inspection plate is extra time and money, but you won't have to worry about your rudder for a long, long time.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2005 : 13:36:09

Dave,<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...was wonderinig if anybody has ever heard or had pintle failure ...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Yes. Here's a scan of my broken lower pintle.
<center>

</center>
Note that the external indications of the impending failure were just a few hairline cracks mostly hidden by harmless looking surface rust, while the interior of the pintle pin was rotten to the core.

Miraculously, this failed about 1/4 mile from my dock on a dead calm day while I was anchored and diving under the boat to check for marine growth. I noticed the problem while climbing back aboard on the stern ladder. I was able to jamb the broken stub of the pintle in the gudgeon and slowly motor back home.

(I must be living right!

)

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2005 : 16:33:42

Leon,

Is corrosion (rust) like that normal for stainless steel in a saltwater environment?

I just went out in the garage and inspected my pintles. The pintles and welds are nice and shiny without any apparent signs of corrosion.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2005 : 09:53:30

Don L,<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Is corrosion (rust) like that normal for stainless steel in a saltwater environment?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">In a way, yes. I'm no metalurgist (and I'm not even sure I can spell it

), but here's what I think I know and have observed. Stainless steel needs air and a smooth surface to resist rust. High concentrations of salt seem to overwhelm its ability to resist corrosion. Whereas carbon steel seems to rust parallel to its surface (think of the plates of rust that form on a boat trailer frame), Stainless steel seems to rust perpenticular to the surface. That is, it forms crevice corrosion wherein the surface can look fairly good with only a small hairline crack that might even be mistaken for a scratch with dirt in it. Below the surface, that crack can extend deep into the metal. My pintle failure is a fine example if what I'm describing. This is also why I'm not real happy that Catalina chose to use stainless steel fasteners to hold the swing keel on, and why I replace mine every couple of years.

-- Leon Sisson

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