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Cleat Help Please!

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Ed Harris
1st Mate

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25 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/08/2005 : 11:30:19

Hi all,
I'm looking to replace the stock cleats used for controlling the jib-sheets. In the past, I used a cam cleat and felt that it worked really well.
I wanted to check in here to see what you have done/used in this area.

Thanks,
Ed

1985 Catalina 25
"Fourteenth Street"

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 12:01:19

I have some large fuzzy sheets for my high wind sail, I also like big hardware. I bought [url="http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?B4RPMEB9Y9AFFK"]Harken Offshore 280[/url]

I think most would buy the [url="http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?B4RPMEB9Y8VKMG"]Harken 150[/url]

Edited by - on

Ed Harris
1st Mate

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25 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 12:23:12

Thanks for the reply.
I was thinking 280 as well, nice to see that someone else is already using them.

Now, do you have a photo you could show me where you placed them, or a description? Risers?

Thanks again,

Ed

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 12:50:20

I mounted up clam cleats on wedges angled off the winches so they're in line with a person sitting at the helm (was thinking single-handing at the time). I find they are easier to release under load than cams, but then they easily release with just a nudge or a bump of an elbow, so they have their down side too. They just happened to be what I was used to racing on friends' boats.

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 12:55:48

Personally I like the ease of cam cleats.
I tried to order new ones from Catalina and the ones they sent were much smaller than the originals.
Along with the cleats was a note that said they didn't offer the larger ones anymore.
Wish they would have told me that when I ordered them.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 15:14:03

Ed, as you can see, some people like cam cleats, and others like clam cleats. Both types are functional. The differences are slight. It's really more a matter of preference than anything. Since you are accustomed to cam cleats, you would probably do well to continue using them. Last year I replaced my original mainsheet cam cleat with a Harken, and it seems to operate much more smoothly.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/08/2005 : 15:41:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Mason
 I mounted up clam cleats on wedges angled off the winches so they're in line with a person sitting at the helm
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
John,
I actually use both, I have aluminum "race" clams angled to the helm and the clams set on risers and angled for crew

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2005 : 08:29:29

Of course, the "ultimate" jib sheet holder is "SELF-TAILING WINCHES". With a pair of these babies on board, it's "we don' need no steeenkin' cam cleats"!

The Lewmar 14ST's I installed last year were the bext $700 upgrade I ever spent on the boat.

Edited by - lcharlot on 03/09/2005 08:31:44

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2005 : 14:04:20

Frank, that sounds like a great idea. There isn't enough room on that combing for clams angled in the direction for crew. With my clams angled toward the helm, crew have trouble cleating off the jib sheet. I'll be looking into that upgrade!

Edited by - on

Ed Harris
1st Mate

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25 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2005 : 18:51:05

Thanks Ya'll!

I've got some good ideas from this!!

Ed

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/09/2005 : 19:17:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Mason
 Frank, that sounds like a great idea. There isn't enough room on that combing for clams angled in the direction for crew. With my clams angled toward the helm, crew have trouble cleating off the jib sheet. I'll be looking into that upgrade!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Starboard, (plus downhaul cam)

Port

Edited by - on

Ed Harris
1st Mate

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25 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2005 : 08:50:07

Thanks Fhopper (sorry, I don't know your name)...I think I'll place my cams at about the same spot!!

Thanks everyone!

Ed

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2005 : 09:59:18

Does anyone have any experience with "Winchers"? They install over a standard winch, converting them into self-tailing winches for about 1/10th the price. For single-handing a self-tailing winch would be the ultimate I think (I just can't quite justify the cost ...yet:)).

Until then I'll just continue using the horn cleats...

Bill B
Wind Dancer
84 C25 #4036 FK/SR
SF Bay

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2005 : 10:13:56

Bill,
You can get them at West Marine and probably other places. I know Barton makes them.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=72183

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2005 : 11:52:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ed Harris
 Thanks Fhopper (sorry, I don't know your name)...I think I'll place my cams at about the same spot!!

Thanks everyone!

Ed
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
"Some people call me Maurice" You can always click on a person's screen name in the left column to read their profile. SOme people do a lousy job of providing profile info but some are very interesting.

Remember that the sheet comes of the aft side of the winch on Starboard and the forward side on Port.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2005 : 12:58:37

I used to have Harken 150's for the jib sheets. When they wore out I switched to Ronstan cam cleats. They are much less expensive and the crew insists that they work easier. As for clam cleats, they were the first thing I threw overboard...they tend to release unexpectedly, and to "catch" the lazy sheet when tacking.

Derek

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2005 : 13:21:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Derek Crawford
 I used to have Harken 150's for the jib sheets. When they wore out I switched to Ronstan cam cleats. They are much less expensive and the crew insists that they work easier. As for clam cleats, they were the first thing I threw overboard...they tend to release unexpectedly, and to "catch" the lazy sheet when tacking.

Derek
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Which is why you will beat me badly at nationals!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2005 : 15:31:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">As for clam cleats, they were the first thing I threw overboard...they tend to release unexpectedly, and to "catch" the lazy sheet when tacking.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It's all a matter of what you get used to. Those are drawbacks of clam cleats, but, with practice you can learn to avoid those things. I think clam cleats are easier for a singlehander to use with one hand, because all you have to do is drop the line in the slot, and the cleat grips the line. Even when I'm sitting on the high side, I can often just flip the line into the slot, and it will grip. The "benefits" of clams aren't so great that I would change from cams to clams, but if the PO installed clams, I would suggest you use them for awhile to see if you like them.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/10/2005 : 19:21:15

Easiest thing to use are Winchers. Had 'em for 12 years on our C25, never failed, except in absolutely light winds, which occurred rarely here in San Francisco. Highly recommended and avoids lots of hardware on a nice clean coaming.

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3324 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2005 : 00:30:21

They are OK for cruising Stu, but lousy for racers!
Derek

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2005 : 09:18:30

Here's a pair -no reserve - opening bid .99 cents.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31281&item=4534938051&rd=1"]Harken 150 Cam-matic cleats on eBay[/url]

Steve

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

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349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2005 : 11:55:25

Derek - you're right. You won't find self-tailing winches on serious racing boats. For the occasional racer or beer can racer... it may not be a problem.

Bill B

Edited by - on

Designwiz
1st Mate

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USA
59 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2005 : 13:23:03

Hi ED....Installed a set of Harken cam cleats last year. I checked the Harken catalog and they were 150's with the fairleads installed on them which makes them a Harken "Standard 356". I must admit they have made solo sailing easier for me. I am very pleased with the way they have worked out. Was told by a seasond sailor that on a larger boat with more sail area one might not be strong enough to release the sheet line from the cam's grip....it has not happend to me so far...and do not think it ever will. I did install the spacers under them and this year will also add the angled wedges so that they are positioned on a level plane to the winches. My opinion...go for it!!!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2005 : 14:03:00

Bruce, if the wind is blowing so hard that the cam cleat won't release the sheet easily, put an extra wrap or two around the winch. The added friction of the line on the winch will reduce the load on the cleat.

Edited by - on

Ben
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1234 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2005 : 15:14:29

Bill B, I use winchers too and love them. I didn't know what they were for the longest time until my buddy Steve Milby showed me one windy day.

Edited by - on

Ed Harris
1st Mate

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25 Posts

Response Posted - 03/11/2005 : 16:45:15

I bought the 150's...should work out nicely...thanks gang.

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