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first time flying the spinnaker!

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/12/2005 : 00:24:02

Indiscipline headed home on a quiet March 11, Friday evening under my 0.5 oz spinnaker!

Single handed, too, I might add. It was really fun.

Indiscipline 1978 FK SR #398

Edited by - on

andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2005 : 01:15:53

Jim
Outstanding! I've got an asymetrical with a snuffer and it's great fun. Works like a great big genny. You pop that in light air and the other guy doesn't and you say "see ya Jonny", just like in "Seabiscuit". It's been my experience that when flying it keep a good watch for the puffs. 5-6 kt in the chute when yer reaching and yeeehaaaaa!!! makes the hair stand right up on yer arms! Anything stronger you better dump it. I really like the snuffer.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2005 : 08:55:56

I once flew my asymetrical cruising spinnaker in 12 mph winds with 4 foot waves. We sped along slightly off-wind at 9.5 knots, 12+ surfing down the waves. That will raise the hair on your neck. It felt like we covered the 25 mile trip in 30 minutes. Not true of course but it was exciting in the extreme. Frankly, I haven't done it since and don't plan to. I was younger and a little too daring then. It does go to show though, that a Catalina 25 TR will do more than 6.5 knots.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

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andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 03/12/2005 : 12:47:35

Yikes Al
I know what you mean about being young and having no thought of mortality. I used to do things with an airplane when I was in the Navy that I wouldn't dream of doing as a 58 year old.
If I'm off wind with the spiniker I'm not so much worried about losing control of the boat, it's more I don't want to tear the chute up. It's 3/4 oz parachute material. I have had a situation when we were reaching had a puff hit and the bow just swung with the wind, the tiller was gone... we were at that point out of control and headed for a log boom next to the marina...yikes!!! So much for showing off the spinney to the dock sailors!

Jim looks like your chute is a symetrical, you've got some serious sailing skills to single hand it. I single hand mine, but I've got an autopilot and mines like a big puffy genny.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2005 : 12:08:40

Gary and I spent about 4 hours practicing with it Saturday in better winds. I told him "don't come with me because its going to cost you some money!" Knowing that he would want one, too.

Its a handfull getting it up and down single handed but I can do it - leave the steering to my trusty autopilot.

I don't have a snuffer but just cram it in the turtle bag, works pretty well.

Folks - after sailing with the spinnaker Friday night, all day sailing on Saturday (18 miles including coming back way after dark) anchored out, sailed out of the anchorage Sunday morning without motor (just to see if I could do it), sailed all day Sunday, fished the La Jolla kelp, caught and lost a bonita, poled out the genoa for the run home in about 15 knots of wind ....then worked on the S2 getting it ready for Newport - Ensenada race for several hours....

I've now sailed every day for 10 days in a row.

I'm stiff, sore, and tired like never before.

My legs don't want to go up one more set of steps.

Hopefully I'll be feeling better before heading out tonight.

Edited by - on

Charlie Vick
Captain

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USA
423 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2005 : 12:40:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 

I've now sailed every day for 10 days in a row.

Hopefully I'll be feeling better before heading out tonight.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I need your kinda job!!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2005 : 13:02:03

JB
Where have you been launching the sail from? IMHO On boats our size it is best to launch and retrieve in the lee of the main from the companionway. Pre run the the sheets and guys, set the pole against the forestay. You can clip the turtle onto the poptop frame. Launch in the lee, get full hoist, haul the weather sheet, until the sail and pole are where you want them. Furl your headsail. Trim. To strike you make sure it is in the lee again, unfurl your headsail, stand in the companionway, cast off the halyard and haul down like a madman. the sail is now on the floor down below. You sort it out and stuff it back in the turtle for the next launch. I don't know anyone using a turtle on the bow.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2005 : 17:21:47

Yes, I've been doing it on the bow. I had the pole setting on the bow pulpit, and I had that corner of the sail clipped to the sheet and set into the pole. I then hoisted, while holding the other corner of the sail in my hands, ready to attach the sheet. A gust hit and I ALMOST went flying into the water (I had to let it go...)

I also had the jib furled before the hoist. Not sure how to do it with the jib still out.

Let me give some serious thought to your idea for launching/recovery through the sliding hatch/companionway. Sounds very promising, I can't quite visualize it.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2005 : 18:09:46

Wow, not only is it single handed, but it looks awfull dark out too.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2005 : 20:46:17

Here we are approaching the mark. Bob has the pole set and EVERYTHING run on the outside. You can just see the halyard hanging down in the companionway. The main and headsail blanket the chute while it is raised and lowered. That makes it easy to hoist and haul.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 03/14/2005 20:50:38

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 03/14/2005 : 21:08:44

My asymmetrical spinny came with a 'chute'. Is that what you folks are calling a 'snuffer'? I don't seem to need a spinnaker pole. I've only had the spinny up once at dockside though, just to see how things went. I hoisted the spinny, in it's chute, up on a halyard, secured the tack to a fitting on the bow and ran the clew sheet down one side through a block, finally around a winch near the stern. I then pulled on a line that hauls the chute up, thus unpacking the spinnaker, at which point even the sub 3 knot breeze had us heeling at dockside. I reversed pull on the chute line, down came the chute over the spinnaker (with a bit of help to avoid tearing and such), and it was stowed. I'd hate to have to tack frequently with this but if I was going to be on the same heading for miles, it could be great. Mind you, I only think I've got it right.
Bob

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2005 : 11:22:58

Thanks Frank, the picture is worth a lot of words!

I can set it and sail it, I can't do it fast (yet).

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John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2005 : 16:22:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by seastream
 I'd hate to have to tack frequently with this...
Bob
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Me too! I got dumb at last year's Nationals and tried tacking with the assymetrical spinnaker. Doesn't work.

I knew that, but I had a flash of stupidity and tried anyway.

Ended up hugging the mark. Jibing it works much better.

Edited by - on

seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2005 : 18:40:05

I think tacking my spin is possible, but difficult. My roller furling jib stays in place (though furled when using the spin), and the spin is essentially raised between it and the main. There's two sheets attached to the spin clew (actually a very long one doubled over) that can be run down each side of the boat. I'd have to gather the spin as we crossed the wind and 'help' it over to the other side between the forestay and mainmast, with my mate hauling like a mad person on the now active sheet. At least I think that's how it's supposed to work for my particular setup. Again, I've only had it up at dockside. Anyone that really knows, feel free to jump in.
Bob

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andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 03/15/2005 : 22:01:16

Mine tacks fine, but you need to get through the first half of the tack faster than you normally would. Let it fill as you come through irons and make sure the windward sheet is free. Contol it with the tiller and let the leward sheet out until the chute is past the stays, then trim it. In more wind, somethimes the bow doesn't come through fast enough and it gets backwinded in the shrouds.
"Chute" is another name for a spiniker.
"Snuffer" is the sock around the chute to launch and snuff it. It's like a condom for your spinney. And it sure makes life easier!
That snuffer is great when waiting for a race to start in super light air. When the horn sounds, pull the thing up, wait for the pop, any away ya go. It's also great when you see a big puff coming. Haul the thing down...no more horsepower...problem solved.

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seastream
Navigator

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USA
242 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2005 : 07:23:13

Yep, what I called the chute is actually the snuffer. My bad.

I'm wondering if I'll have much use for it in the ocean...unlike the lake, I doubt there's often a lack of wind offshore. We'd sure like to try it, though.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2005 : 09:52:53

spinnaker broach?

So what do you do if you find yourself getting knocked down? Turn up, turn down? Drop the sail in the water?

PS...sailed now 13 days in a row. Last night HUGE winds. Reefed, jib rolled to a 90. No spinnaker needed! Got out late. Only time for a couple of sails out of the harbor and around the red bouy.

Saw speeds to 7.5 knots surfing the substantial waves back in with all that wind!

Edited by - JimB517 on 03/16/2005 09:56:27

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5909 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2005 : 11:08:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So what do you do if you find yourself getting knocked down? Turn up, turn down? Drop the sail in the water?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> My spinnaker experience is limited, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I like to talk about this stuff, so here goes. You have to be especially alert to gusts when flying a spinnaker. When you first see a gust coming, you have to start bearing off downwind, and you have to stay ahead of the gust, i.e., the stronger the gust, the more you have to bear off. If you don't bear off quickly enough, the boat starts accelerating and heeling very quickly. Once the boat is in danger of broaching, it's too late to bear off. The forces on the sail overpower the rudder, and the boat won't respond to the rudder anymore. At that point, all you can do is let the spinnaker sheet fly. That will spill the wind out of the sail and let you regain control.

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2005 : 13:24:51

good tip, thanks!

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andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2005 : 13:26:38

Steve you're right. Situational awareness is a critical part of flying a chute. Especially on a lake that can get gusty in a moments notice. You want to be able to douse it quickly and that should be practiced. Sheet management is also critical. You don't want to be untangleing a mess when the boat's out of control, spinney sheets are long and light. Where you are in relation to obstacles or the beach is CRITICAL. Say you're reaching along a lee shore, can you douse the spiniker? No room to turn downwind, if it's a strong puff, and the spinney gets hung up, I can guarantee that you will beach yourself.

I have absoultely no experience with a symetrical chute. Some my concerns don't apply primarily because you're mostly off wind. The asymetrical I have allows me to broad reach and even point a few degrees. Reaching is where you can get hammered if you're not paying attention.

I always rig my chute at the dock. It stores in the snuffer in a bag hanging on the bow pulpit. I usually launch it on the dock as well, to make sure all the sheets are proper. When everything is right, I lower the chute,(in the snuffer) and put it in the bag with everything rigged except the halyard. When we want to fly it, we just hook up the halyard and hall it right out of the bag. We race with it using that technique. A pic of the bag on my boat is in the thread "wanna race".

I don't think there's anything more fun than flying a spiniker!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2005 : 16:28:31

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andy
 

I always rig my chute at the dock. It stores in the snuffer in a bag hanging on the bow pulpit. I usually launch it on the dock as well, to make sure all the sheets are proper. When everything is right, I lower the chute,(in the snuffer) and put it in the bag with everything rigged except the halyard. When we want to fly it, we just hook up the halyard and hall it right out of the bag. We race with it using that technique. A pic of the bag on my boat is in the thread "wanna race".

I don't think there's anything more fun than flying a spiniker!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You race with a snuffer?

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andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2005 : 19:02:01

Club races, the wife usually steers.
About 2 minutes before the leward mark, snuff the chute, flip the spin halyard clutch, go forward yank down the chute(snuffed),unsnap tack from forestay, stuff it in the bag, unsnap spin halyard, snap on the genoa halyard, secure spiniker halyard to mast, back to the cockpit, haul the 155.. The genoa stays rigged at all times, the spiney tacks above it. I adjust the spinney tack (how high) from the cockpit. I can do that solo in less than a minute. If I'm running the pole it takes a little longer. The snuffer it at the top of the mast and no doubt has some windage but I really don't care. The chute's way to much of a hassel to rassle without it.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2005 : 05:28:11

Newbie question here: Can you use a spinnaker when you have the genoa on a roller furler?

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2005 : 10:39:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by andy
 ,unsnap tack from forestay,
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Oh, an Asym; I would use a snuffer too. On a Sym everything is loose, nothing is "tacked".

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andy
Navigator

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USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2005 : 10:54:27

Rick
Sure, you just won't be able to adjust the tack height. I hank my sails on so the spinney shares the forstay with the headsail. An Asymetrical only attaches at the tack. With your furler, you would tack the sail next to the furler on the bow. It's actually much easier to fly with a furler.. You difinitely need to get one!

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JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2005 : 11:06:02

Notice my photo at the top shows a spinnaker with my rolled genoa. Can't quite see the pole in the photo but is is set for downwind (way out to the starboard).

A good question (for Gary - Classical Cat) is how to fly an asym with a furler.

The asym has 2 hanks, one 6 inches below the head and one 6 inches above the tack. You would need some way to hoist these over the furled genoa.

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