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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Grounding AC Generator while on the hook

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albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/23/2005 : 11:39:26

I've got a small portable, quiet generator to run a small portable Air conditioner.

While anchored, how do I ground the generator? I was thinking of using a zinc fish (fish shaped zinc with cable and battery terminal on end) which would attach to the ground connector on the generator; the fish would go over the side into sea water.

Should I even ground the generator?

BTW I'm installing a CO detector in the cabin.

Albert Iturrey
al@comhertz.com
Abacus 1984 C25 #4679

Edited by - on

ChrisDara
1st Mate

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USA
88 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2005 : 12:41:54

I'm not sure about a generator but when grounding the mast for lightning it is suggested to use the keel bolts. Not sure what you have but I have a fin and the bolts are right there.

There's a meter you can use to check for ground and the quality of it.

Hope that helps.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2005 : 21:07:49

Albert

The generator should have a three prong plug. Just plug that into your shorepower outlet. No additional ground is needed.

To check further, contact the manufacturer, but don't ground it overboard, you'd be in for the shock of your life.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 03/27/2005 20:40:14

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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1771 Posts

Response Posted - 03/23/2005 : 21:46:26

The generator should have a three prong plug. Just plug that into your shorepower outlet. No additional ground is needed. - Stu

Hi Stu,

Well, no doubt at least one of us is going nuts ... 'maybe we both are ... BUT ... isn't Albert talking about a gasoline-powered generator to make electricity, not use it

Albert says he wants to use it to power his a/c while anchored out ... he wouldn't need a generator if he had access to shore power.

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Earl Landers
Navigator

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USA
157 Posts

Response Posted - 03/24/2005 : 19:29:28

Is a "Zinc fish" the proper bait for an Electric Eel?

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tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2005 : 03:04:28

Buzz, I assumed that he meant to plug the output of the generator into the shore power input on the boat. If the 110 system on the boat is grounded this would ground the generator as well I think.

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2005 : 09:50:28

For mobile use (RV, Boat, out in the field) the portable generator functions without an 'earth' ground. If you're using one to provide auxillary power to your house, your house wiring provides a link to an earth ground.

Todd Wrote... "If the 110 system on the boat is grounded this would ground the generator as well I think."

The only way our shorepower systems become 'grounded' is through a connection to the shorepower outlet... that provides the link back to an 'earth'.

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John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 03/25/2005 : 19:35:34

What ever you do, don't ground 110 v into the water. That can be very dangerous. As Bruce says regular shore power grounds back into the earth, not the water.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/27/2005 : 20:39:41

Buzz

Todd's right, that's what I meant. The generator makes electricity, just like shorepower, so connect it's (the generator's) output to the boat's shorepower inlet. Pretty simple.

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albert
Captain

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USA
262 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2005 : 00:01:42

My plan is to connect the generator to my shorepower connector. My bad, I should have stated that in this post.

My question is where does the "ground" come from when using a generator while on the hook. From what I've read here there is no ground on boat generators.

While getting 120 volt AC power from a generator with no ground, would GFI protected outlets work?

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2005 : 08:24:33

Hi y'all,

'Sorry to be such a dunderhead

... my father was an electrical engineer, and he didn't pass on any of those genes to me ... electricity mystifies me.

I hope someone knows the answer to Albert's grounding question. Frankly, I'd never thought of it ... I figured you'd just plug the air conditioner (or whatever) directly into the generator and that would be the end of it.

Our yacht club sponsors a Christmas light parade every year, and there is always a mad scramble to rent generators for that night. I haven't gotten to participate in the light parade, but, as far as I know, the participants just put the generator somewhere in the cockpit and plug the Christmas lights directly into the generator. I don't know if they do anything to ground the system.

BTW, how would you tie the generator into the boat's a/c power system? Would you have to buy/make a cord that plugs into the generator on one end, and a "shore power" plug on the other to plug into the shore power inlet?

Edited by - on

Bay Tripper
1st Mate

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USA
56 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2005 : 08:51:05

Buzz you can purchase an adapter from West Marine. See page 658. I purchased Marco# 83A. It works great for getting power from by generator to the power plug.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2005 : 16:25:08

Buzz and folks

There are two ways to do it.

1) Plug your appliance into the generator output.
2) Plug your generator output into your shorepower inlet.

The first way is simple, and involves no wiring on the boat. The second way makes your on-board AC (ONLY) system "live," and you can use your AC receptacles as if you were tied up to a dock, and turn on your charger similarly, assuming your generator output can handle the charger load. It is also simple.

However (and here's the BUT) you do need to be careful of two things:

a) If you have a permanently installed generator, you'll need a ship/shore switch that makes it impossible for both the shorepower and generator output ever getting to your AC panel at the same time.

b) The ground of the generator should be grounded to the boat's DC ground, which usually goes to the inboard engine for permanently installed generators. See Calder, Chapter 3.

To avoid this complication, most folks don't permanently mount their generators on boats of our size (C25 or C34s). I have found most of our users buy a Honda 1000 or 2000 and just run them at anchor for air conditioning or battery charging. They are NOT permanently mounted. Therefore, just plugging them in either in 1 or 2 above works fine, and no grounding is used to the boat. On C25s without inboard engines, the only ground is the DC black to the batteries anyway.

Finally, much of this has to do with how YOUR boat is wired. YOU need to understand it completely before you go messing around. Many have been changed over the years.

I can't stress this enough:

If you are "electrically challenged" do some reading and trace the wires on your boat. Some boats have AC panels and outlets, some don't, some have built in chargers, some don't. It'll come to you, after all, we all got out of high school (or something we graduated from...).

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 03/28/2005 16:29:35

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