Association Forum - 25 VS 250

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

25 VS 250

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

krconway
Deckhand

Member Avatar

USA
12 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/29/2005 : 23:30:01

Boy it's been awhile since I posted but I have an educated observation. After owning and frequently sailing a 81 Catalina (fin keel) for more than a year I have to admit it will sail rings around the 250 wing (Danforth) keel. Points better, faster on a reach, sails better downwind and easier to trim to a neutral helm even in weather. Just shrugs off the gusts up to about 25 knots. Would have washed the windows on my 250. Yes the 250 sailed better in light air. Hell with all that freeboard she'd try to sail in the slip. Wife misses the amenities of the 250 and I miss the Dutchman and all lines led aft. At least until the breeze, boat and my smile all harden in unison! Hey Catalina, stop building Hunters.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2005 : 00:19:34

The 250 is pretty and I like the open interior, big cockpit, galley, head, sugar scoop transom...

The C25 is fun to sail and points well and I like all my racing gear - 5 headsails, + spinnaker. I hope to have a head-to-head race with a 250 someday soon (in winds over 15).

Charlie took his out in big air and big seas on a day me and my 25 decided to stay inside.

I can sail circles around the local rental 250s but then you got to figure they don't know what the boat can do.

Oh yeah, I really liked the price for a 25 year old C25 in good condition.....

Edited by - JimB517 on 03/30/2005 00:20:20

reuben
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2005 : 09:54:18

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Hey Catalina, stop building Hunters.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I don't know; as a 250 owner who has also looked at a number of Hunters, on the water and at boat shows, and who's compared the heft and build and spars and rigging of Hunters to Catalinas, I'd suggest the above rhetoric is unsupported.

That said, I'd love one day to sail a C25, or, better, a Dana or Norsea.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5902 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2005 : 11:38:05

Brian Beamer and others have proven that a well prepared and sailed C250 can compete fairly closely with a C25. Arlyn Stewart and others have proven that it can stand up to strong winds and choppy seas. I think it's fair to say that the C250 forces you to pay closer attention to changes in wind conditions, and to reduce or increase your sail area accordingly as the windstrength rises and falls.

The C25, with its considerable weight and its rounder hull shape, is more forgiving in that respect, and, when you press it too hard it reacts gradually, rather than suddenly. As I see it, that doesn't make the C250 a bad design. It's just different. IMHO, in many respects, the C250, with its flatter bottom and harder chines, behaves more like the C22 than the C25, because its hull shape resembles the C22 more than the C25. Like the C250, the C22 is stable to a point, but, when it is over pressed, it rounds up suddenly. That's not bad design. It's just a characteristic of that particular hull form, which the designer chose because it gave the boat high initial stability. Arlyn and Brian get such good performance out of their boats because they understand the design characteristics of their boats, and adjust their sail trimming accordingly.

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2005 : 16:50:08

<b>"Hey Catalina, stop building Hunters.</b>" OUCH! Completely unfair. Better take a closer look at a Hunter before you make this kind of statement.
Anyway, your comparison is like saying Toyota SUV's are better at climbing gravel hills than Toyota automobiles. THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES!
For those that like the ease of trailering, comfortable amenities and skinny water capabilities of the 250 it's a great, well made boat. Of the 3 major manufacturers that fit the bill, Hunter, MacGregor,and Catalina, which boat would you want?
For those that want a more forgiving, higher pointing boat without concern for draft, their are probably a couple of dozen boats that fit the bill, all for less money than the 250 as they can be older technology. Many even have more room than the fin 25 with lines led to the cockpit!

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2005 : 19:05:22

Here's a shocker, a Macgregor 26X with a 50hp will run rings around a Macgregor 26D with a 9.9hp under power!

Edited by - Tom Potter on 03/30/2005 19:06:00

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2005 : 19:36:07

It is often the little things that add up to making a huge comparison. When examining the new hunter, I noted that while it had an open transom and a swim ladder, there were no pushpit rails or aft stanchions or stern seats to grab to ease oneself into the boat, whereas the 250 has rails on both sides making ascending the ladder and getting aboard super easy.

And, like the 250, it has no sidedecks but unlike the 250 no midship double anchored stanchion offering a handhold to mount/dismount the cabin top is provided.

I could go on, but think the point is made that Catalina designs seem to consider hardware with a little more thought than Hunter.

Regarding the C25/250 issue, we've talked it often. Sales of 25s was soft with a bad market and plentiful supply of used boats and Catalina did what is always required, design something with new innovations for which there is a demand at a cost the market will bare.

In the case of the c25/250,
<ul><li>more easily trailered</li><li>more space for family boating, especially berth more berth space</li><li>open transom for easy swimmer access</li><li>no exterior brightwork for easier maintenance</li><li>easier setup, launch and retrieve</li><li>wider footwell to allow wheel steering</li><li>and a probable issue was less production cost</li></ul>

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 03/30/2005 20:00:17

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2005 : 21:39:16

I saw a C250 on stands today at my boatyard. I was amazed how much the hull resembled my Capri 25. It had the flatter look that my Capri has. This of course made me wonder how it dealt with power boat chop, an issue on lakes for some.

Edited by - on

Waterboy
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
204 Posts

Response Posted - 03/30/2005 : 22:54:01

I looked long and hard at used (obviously) swing keel 25's knowing they had many advantages undersail. But, 'fact is, I couldn't reasonably drag one around any distance with my half ton truck. I couldn't reasonably sleep in the V-berth as it was too short. I didn't have the time, knowledge, experience, or proper venue to refit and set up an sk 25 and/or regear my tall rear-ended 4.6L ford 4by to drag her around. I stumbled on a reasonably good deal for a '95 wb 250 ... it's been great. Last summer we sailed in at least 8 different states (granted for that trip I used a 350 to tow).

They're completely different boats, it doesn't make a lot of sense to compare them without the context in which someone chose their boat. I envy many of the 25's - on the water, but I wouldn't want to tow one from here to Chesapeke Bay.

I think that, while the 250, esp wb, are more tender beam to beam, they're bretty firm fore to aft, esp with a water tank and batteries up front.

my 2 clams - Greg

PS - hey, we could always compare our boats to, say, a J or Ultimate 24 as well ... and then there's the Mac with the 50hp

Edited by - Waterboy on 03/30/2005 22:57:09

GREGG
Deckhand

Members Avatar

7 Posts

Response Posted - 03/31/2005 : 23:10:28

There is now way I would give up the comfort of my "New" 250 wing to sail a little faster on a "old" c-25. My wife and I spend many nights on our boat sleeping in the aft berth in great comfort.What a pleasure it is not to make or take down our bed each night and morning. And yes my wing is easy to balance and will just about sail her self which allows us to enjoy her large cockpit all the more. And what a joy to swim off of and return to the boat. The open transom and swim ladder are well done. Yes I reef earlier then you do but no big deal to me. I will wave at you as you pass me (if you can) but truth be known, I doubt my co-captain would be happy with your boat.
Gregg
C-250 wing #761 and proud of it.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2005 : 15:23:57

I'm coming in on this discussion a day late but here's my two cents.

I've never sailed a 250 so I can't comment on how it sails. Those that have them seem to like them. As Arlyn pointed out, Catalina has added the finer touches that make a boat, well, a boat. I particularly like the transverse berth under the cockpit. I've been considering doing the same on my C25 by shortening the depth of the lazerette.

I also like the 250 main hatch set up. Much more practical than the C25 - and no teak to keep up.

I also like the open transom. Much easier for getting in the boat from a dinghy and landing an overboard person.

Finally, since there is no privacy on a 25 sailboat anyway, I like the open interior.

The one thing that has always bothered me about the 250 is that "plasticy" look it has without any teak on it. Mind you I've only been on them at boat shows and I know it's a well made boat, by a very reputable company, with a lot going for it design-wise. It's a first impression I get every time I see one on the showroom floor. It's just not as aestheticly pleasing to look at as the C25. Even that is as it should be since they are a thoroughly modern boat designed to get the busy family of today out on the water for the weekend with little fanfare or extra work.

As for Hunters, they left a lot off their boats to attract customers with price not necissarily quality. When I was buying a boat and compred the C25 and Hunter, well, the rest is history.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

krconway
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2005 : 18:40:55

OK, OK, so I knew I was in for a spanking from 250 owners. All the positive points are valid. As for the Hunter remark, SHAME on me as Catalina builds a better quality boat. That is why I have owned 3 of them and expect to own at least 1 more. But I was speaking to aesthetics, not construction. Yes we miss the pulpit seats, huge cockpit, Grand Canyon cabin and full head, my wife more so than I. But trying to fit cruising amenities into 25 feet has resulted in Clorox bottle boats. Ergo my comparison to the Hunter and another authors comparison to McGregor. When I bought the boat I disliked it’s lines but thought I would grow into it plus the deal was just too good to pass up. I never grew to like her lines but then I lust for traditional looks like the Alerion Express 28 (please don’t offer the obvious “no comparison” shtick). The 250 was engineered to do exactly what it does very well. Congrats to Catalina for another well engineered and well built boat. But I don’t trailer my boat, don’t need good performance in light winds and spend most of my time sailing (read: in the cockpit). I take full responsibility for choosing a boat not particularly suited to my taste or needs. As far as comments regarding "there is no grounds for comparison", I offer just two minor details. They are both 25’ Catalina’s. Go figure. Kudos to the author that posted regarding the discontinuance of water ballasted Hunters and the questioned continuance of Catalina’s production of water ballasted boats for making us all go “hmmmmmmmmmmm”. Oh, and Greg, I can.

Edited by - krconway on 04/01/2005 19:04:15

reuben
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
202 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2005 : 20:00:05

relax

Edited by - on

krconway
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
12 Posts

Response Posted - 04/01/2005 : 21:31:50

This is relaxed. No worry, no problem.....

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.