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Towing C25

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Cloudveil
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/08/2005 : 13:29:00

Hi all! I am in process of purchasing used C25 with wing keel, on
tandem trlr. I plan on towing with 2000 Ford Expedition with 5.4V8,
& factory towing package, (4X4). Any comments as to suitability, etc., would be welcomed. Thanks!

Edited by - on

Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2005 : 13:55:30

John, Welcome to the group. I am just down the road from you at Lake Don Pedro. The tow vehicle you discribe is plenty for the job. Anything smaller, shorter, or lighter is getting into the margins of safety. The power isn't the issue in most cases, it is the ability to STOP and CONTROL SWAY that the heavier and longer vehicle makes a huge difference. Make sure to have about 10% tongue weight and you should be fine. Where do you plan on keeping the boat?

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2005 : 14:16:21

I limp along on with a Mountaineer, you sound good to go to me. Some people would argue for more but they are only looking to justify 1 ton trucks to their wives.

Edited by - on

lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2005 : 14:18:44

A Ford Expedition will be plenty good enough. Use first gear and 4WD-Low to pull the boat up launch ramps. I assume the trasmission is an automatic (were Expeditions ever available with the ZF 5 speed manual tranny that Ford puts in F-250/350 pickups? Manual trannys are better for towing and launching a heavy boat - more reliable anyway). What hull number is the C-25 you are buying? Standard or Tall rig? Where will you berth the boat? Congratulations and welcome to the ranks of C-25 owners; you will find we are a pretty enthusiatic group on this Forum.

Edited by - on

ct95949
Captain

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Aruba
300 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2005 : 14:18:48

Hi John,welcome to the forum.

I tow my '79 SK with my '98 Chevy 1/2 ton,5.0,2WD,3.75 axle,tow package,A/T truck with no problem.My trailer is an EZ Loader two axle with surge brakes rated at 10,000 lbs.The truck is rated at 6500 lbs.

Since you can't use a load leveling hitch with surge brakes I installed air shocks.I wasted my money,the load was just the right balance of tongue and trailer weight.

My trailer came with a tongue extender which I couldn't launch without and I did replace the brake backing plates,pads,bearings,etc.

Several experts will tell you here shortly that you need a bigger more expensive tow vehicle and a trailer with electric brakes.I may be a "newbie" to boating but not to trailering.Try your SUV first,it should work fine.

Edited by - on

Cloudveil
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2005 : 17:00:05

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ed Montague
 John, Welcome to the group. I am just down the road from you at Lake Don Pedro. The tow vehicle you discribe is plenty for the job. Anything smaller, shorter, or lighter is getting into the margins of safety. The power isn't the issue in most cases, it is the ability to STOP and CONTROL SWAY that the heavier and longer vehicle makes a huge difference. Make sure to have about 10% tongue weight and you should be fine. Where do you plan on keeping the boat?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

Cloudveil
1st Mate

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USA
60 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2005 : 19:55:25

Larry /Icharlot - I am looking @ 82 C25 with factory WK conversion in your area. The boat belongs to John Mcready of
Placerville. Perhaps you are familiar with this C25, and might have any useful info on this boat? Thanks for any info -
John Wood

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2005 : 20:47:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cloudveil
 Larry /Icharlot - I am looking @ 82 C25 with factory WK conversion in your area. John Wood
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have an 82 and I think it is a very good stage in the boat's evolution, with a wing it would rock! Congratulations on finding it, let us know if you buy it.

Edited by - on

At Ease
Admiral

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672 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2005 : 20:49:24

Be sure you do not exceed the weight the Expedition can 'legally' tow or the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR). The latter is the total weight of the loaded tow vehicle and the loaded trailer and load. Exceeding either of these weights, sets us up to being liable should we be involved in an accident, even if it is not our fault...because we are not 'legal' if exceeding what the manufacturer says we should be towing.

Edited by - on

JB007
Deckhand

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USA
20 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2005 : 03:23:18

John, your 2000 Ford Expedition 5.4 Ltr V-8 with factory towing package is more than adequately powered to to tow the C-25 Rig and trailer which weighs around 5000 lbs.

The most important thing I recommend you do is to have the trailer's coupler, suspension, (electric or hydraulic) braking system and tires safety checked. Also be sure to use the right size ball to match the size of the coupler ( usually 2 5/16") and make sure the ball is professionally tightened with a torque wrench that is set to factory recommended specs.

Keep in mind that many boat trailer accidents happen while on a down-grade as the rig is entering a curve that the driver has to slow down for. If, while on the downgrade, the trailer's brakes are not functioning properly, the momentum of the trailer can over-power the vehicle in the curve and cause both truck and trailer to overturn. The main thing when trailering is to drive at a speed at which you can maintain full control over your rig.

Good Luck with your new boat and Good Sailing.

Edited by - JB007 on 04/09/2005 03:29:22

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2005 : 00:26:49

I bought a 81 sr/sk last november, I had it surveyed - survey said: trailer and trailer brakes were in good shape. I towed it 100 miles without incident.
Two weeks ago, in preparation to haul 500 miles - I had the brakes inspected - I ended up replacing the entire brake mechanisms because the old brakes were so badly rusted.
Sounds like you are getting a trailer similar in vintage to mine - so I'd say, get the brakes inspected at a licenced brake shop.
My haul included the Rocky mountains so I didn't want to take any chances.
I tow with a GMC 2500 LWB with tow package. I transfered as much stuff as I could from the boat to the back of the truck.
When towing a 25 ft, 6,000+ LB boat - learn what your stopping distance is, expect that idiots will cut in front of you, know that you apply your brakes in the straights and excellerate in the curves, to stop a fish tail you accelerate.
I feel confident in my rig because I took the time to make sure everything was serviced and secured properly - I drove an Expedition prior to the GMC and think that the Expedition is an excellent C25 tow vehicle. I would get a second opinion (RV places are good at this) to make sure tongue weight and ball height were just right.
My Expedition was higher than my GMC 2500.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2005 : 07:25:21

Mountains would worry me without electric brakes.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2005 : 10:26:53

I think a CRITICAL part of preparing a C25 for extending towing is to ADD SECOND AXLE BRAKES.

It's amazing to me that they let the stock setups with single-axle brakes leave the factory.
The brakes are only rated to handle the load of that single axle... on most of our trailers, that's 3500 lbs. For all practical purposes, you've got brakes rated for half the weight of the C25 & Trailer.

I added second axle brakes using a kit from championtrailers.com Best thing I ever did for the trailer. The stockers would heat up pretty good going down a relatively modest hill (too hot to touch). With brakes on both axles, they barely get warm going down the same grade.

I also recommend getting the biggest, toughest, beefiest trailer-rated tires that will fit your rims. The axle-hub-rim-brakes setup on the stock C25 trailers are loaded very close to their design limits.

You need to make sure everything is as right as it can be.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2005 : 13:27:57

Every year I go to Huntington lake for the High Sierra Regatta, I'm the only cat 25 that enters the race come on guys do it. This is a very steep drive to 8000 feet. Actually a little higher, then you drop to the lake. Every year it seems that you find someone on the side of the road letting their brakes cool. These same people ride their brakes every time they get a little speed up.
Ladies and Gentelmen I have something to sell you. It is the idea of gear ratios. If you shift down the engine does the work of slowing you. It really works, you have a nice safe decent, and your brakes don't over heat.

Edited by - on

Dave Laux
Captain

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318 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2005 : 19:20:05

Ok,
Our Cat 25 1987 wing keel weighs 8300 lbs on the trailer. Just a reference point. Actual weight from a scale. We have less stuff onboard than most. MattL gear reduction doesn't work with surge brakes. In fact it will smoke-em for sure if its a long down hill. Dave

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2005 : 00:29:11

I found that keeping my speed at maximum 55 MPH on long downhill grades, I was fully in control. I checked my brakes regularily for heat and found only normal operating temps (tandem axle, surge brakes on forward axle). The downhill portion of the Coquihalla Hiway has grades of 8% and go on for miles with lots of curves.
I kept my auto transmission in Drive, with the tow/haul feature engaged. The only time I felt any wobble or slight fishtailing was when I went over 70 MPH downhill, and at that speed I had no difficulty slowing down and getting back to fully under control.
With properly maintained equipment, at 55MPH - I wouldn't hesitate to drive anywhere.
Well, except I'm kind of frightened by the $100 it costs to fill the gas tank.

Edited by - on

Doug C.
Navigator

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USA
146 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2005 : 14:07:11

Valkyrie comes in at 8000 pounds when loaded for a trip (including trailer), 1000 pounds or more of that ends up as tongue weight.

Your Expedition probably has the same receiver that my F250 has. If so be advised that you need a weight distributing hitch by the manufacturers specs in order to handle 1000 pounds of tongue weight.

That said, I have towed her without one from Arizona to Florida two years in a row with no problem. Of course now that I know I will be using one in the future.
One issue with using a weight distributing hitch is that they can interfere with the proper operation of surge brakes as found on most boat trailers, I've already converted to electric so no issue for me.

Edited by - on

tmhansen
Captain

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USA
397 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2005 : 01:37:51

Mike, (Stampeder) you mean KPH right?! Downhill at 70 MPH sounds scary. On our grade here (Cuesta) the speed limit is 35 for trucks and trailers. Last year some powerboater coming to the coast spoiled his trip when he tried to slow his rig and the boat jackknifed the suburban into the median. The boat launched off the trailer and ended up in pieces all over the highway. Made the front page of the local paper. No one was hurt thankfully.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2005 : 10:30:21

NO, I mean MPH - I was translating.
In KPH, I was keeping my speed under 100. But, one time I got going too fast and was doing about 115KPH. Going that fast was the fault of Starbucks...I had just stopped for a Grande and was feeling real good about how smoothly things were going - I was getting passed by all those big rigs and next thing you know, I'm going faster than my own self imposed safety envelope.
My truck is a long box extra cab...its 20ft long, a stable tow vehicle...it was the wobble from the trailer that alerted me to my speed. I immediatley slowed down and swore (to myself) I'd never go that fast again.
The admiral didn't notice the wobble, or slight fishtail.
I've seen lots of accidents, I drive from Calgary to Victoria four times a year, over the Rocky Mountains, via the Coquihalla. The accidents I've seen involve the same element, excessive speed, with usually one additional element, fatigue, weather, faulty equipment or inattention.
My pet peeve is the speed at which truckers drive, especially in the wildlife corridors in our National Parks. In the past 12 months I've seen many accidents on the highways, with the exception of one, they all involved big rigs.
Driving, as I was, at just under 100KPH on a highway where the posted speed limit is 110 KPH and getting passed by everyone else on the road driving 120-130KPH, my driving intention was to keep out of the way.
That said, I wouldn't hesitate to haul that boat with that truck anywhere.

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