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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Keel leak - UPLOADED PICTURES

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dalieva
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/14/2005 : 10:00:16

These pictured are of the bottom leading edge of the keel. We realized we had a problem when I went to chip away some old epoxy and when I did water ran out of the keel.
I have no idea where this water is coming from or exactly how to fix it.
I currently have it left open to dry so I can refill it again with
epoxy. If you have any suggestions, it would be greatly appreciated.
Is it normal?

THANKS A LOT!
Randolph
[url=http://www.shutterfly.com/view/picture_dt.jsp?state=67b0de21ba3add333596&idx=0]

Edited by - dalieva on 04/15/2005 09:33:29

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2005 : 10:22:39

Your FTP site wants a login. What year/keel type is your boat?

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2005 : 11:06:43

if you can email me the photos, I can post them for you.

james.baumgart "at" sdsheriff.org

We'd certainly need to get a look at that keel. This is an unusual report.

Edited by - on

dalieva
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2005 : 14:04:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ClamBeach
 Your FTP site wants a login. What year/keel type is your boat?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
James will post the pics for us.
The boat is a 1984 fixed keel. We think the keel is made out of lead but we will confirm this weekend.
Thank for your help.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2005 : 15:11:59

I have the photos and will post them tonight. It looks like a lead fin keel. I think the PO grounded pretty hard some time in the past, resulting in a big gash. This was filled and faired with epoxy. Water got under the epoxy. When you pulled the old stuff out, water came out. This is cosmetic damage only. You need to check the top of the keel (where it joins and is faired to the hull) and the keel bolts and keel well to see if there was any damage from the past grounding. Look for cracks in the back of the keel well or separation of the top of the keel from the hull (Catalina smile).

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2005 : 23:52:28

Photos

Edited by - JimB517 on 04/16/2005 23:54:03

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2005 : 13:10:23

Come on guys, please look at the photos. Can we get a little help?

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2005 : 13:39:23

I have a cast iron keel, and after a season of low water levels, it tends to get scraped and chipped similar to your photos (I hit bottom about 2 or 3 times last year). To fix, I grind the epoxy encapsulation down around the wound to get rid of any delamination, then put primer on the bare cast iron, fill with epoxy, fair, barrier coat, then bottom paint.

This will last me until the next grounding!

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2005 : 14:35:41

If it was my boat, I'd let it dry for at least a couple of weeks, then sand it just enough to scuff it. Then I'd wire brush it clean, to get rid of any loose materials. The important thing is to seal moisture out from between the fiberglass sheath and the lead. If there's any place where the sheath is separated from the lead, I'd try to fill that space, perhaps by injecting epoxy into it with a syringe and then holding the epoxy in there until it sets up. Then I'd put about 4 coats of coal tar epoxy on it, to seal it against water intrusion. Then I'd fill it with epoxy filler, fair it, barrier coat it (probably with about three more coats of coal tar epoxy), and then paint it with anti-fouling.

Edited by - on

dalieva
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2005 : 17:06:26

Hi everyone.
Thanks for your help it is greatly appreciated. I think for this year it will be a down and dirty fix to get the boat in the water and fix it properly in the fall or following spring. But for anyone who may have something similar, we are thinking the water is coming from the bilge. So we are thinking of also sealing up the bilge as well. If anyone has any suggestions on a quick way of sealing the bilge it also would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2005 : 18:51:43

I know Catalina keels are bulilt differently than my Capri, but I'd be concerned about water wicking up the fibers in the keel and causing other damage. I may be off base here, but I'm sure someone will chime in if I am.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2005 : 12:34:50

What fibers? What leak from the keel well? Mine is a solid piece of cast iron. There is no fiberglass anywhere except fairing the keel to the hull.

The keel well is bone dry all the time (unless I've let water in from cleaning the knotmeter paddle).

The wing keels I've seen are also solid lead. No fiberglass.

Edited by - on

dalieva
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2005 : 12:44:31

Hi Jim
I am not sure if your questions are directed to me or not but the keel is in capsulated by fiberglass. The cast iron keel is inside the fiberglass as you can see in the pictures.

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existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2005 : 12:50:29

Guess I was off base Jim, my keel is encased in fiberglass. Didn't realize the Catalinas were made that different. His pictures didn't look like a wing keel to me either, but I'm probably just not looking at them right. If that thing is solid cast iron, that IS a weird problem. I'll go crawl back under my rock now.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2005 : 13:28:08

Older C25 fin keels were crude iron castings. When I got mine, in 1981, it was coated with coal tar and the especially rough spots were filled with epoxy to smooth it out. In about 1983 or 1984, as I recall, Catalina started putting lead fin keels on the C25s. The lead was not exposed. It was encased in fiberglass, which made them much smoother than the cast iron keels.

Randolph and Dali's boat has the lead fin keel, encased in fiberglass.

I've never looked that closely at the wing keels, but believe they are exposed lead, not encased in fiberglass. That's one of the disadvantages of wing keels. Because lead is fairly soft, a hard grounding can bend a wing. I saw a Pearson with a bent wing. I suspect it would make the boat want to continuously make a gradual turn.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 04/19/2005 13:35:31

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2005 : 15:45:09

I've never seen a lead fin out of the water and did not know they were fiberglass encapsulated. If so, you are seeing the main problem with encapsulation, what happens after a grounding.

My cast iron is bare metal, but its been epoxy coated and covered with bottom paint.

The wings are lead and are not encapsulated.

OK, so here's what I would do.

Grind the area a little around the damage

Let it dry out

Mix up some Marine-Tex epoxy

Fill the hole

Let it dry

sand smooth

Apply bottom paint

go sailing.

Don't hit bottom again!

Edited by - on

dalieva
Deckhand

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Canada
14 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2005 : 12:47:47

Hi Jim
That's great.

That is exactly what we intend to do this year and probably do it properly in the fall.

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