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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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taking on water !!

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nanahammel
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/16/2005 : 13:59:50

Could someone help me please?

My husband and I have a catalina 25 with a swing keel. We just moved it from Austin to Rockport Texas. We had a bottom job done and put it in about a week ago. Here is the problem. We are taking on water and cant figure out where it is comming from.We have about 3 in. of water in the cabin. It is not getting worse (thank goodness).

This is a first boat for us so dont assume we know anything (we dont)
Could it have something to do with the swing keel?

Any ideas would be welcome.

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2005 : 14:34:06

Good grief! Have you pumped/bailed her dry? Including the bilge? You need to get the boat dried out and then observe carefully all around the keel trunk. I would also examine carefully the rubber boot that surrounds the keel lifting cable. I suppose you could have a bad through hull or "to hull" where water from the sink or head discharges overboard, not to mention a leaky through hull fitting for a depth sounder or knotmeter transducer. I would open up ALL the lazarettes and uncover ALL the storage areas and observe carefully.....

The weird thing is that anything that I am envisioning would NOT "heal itself" and should/could be getting WORSE! You have not suggested whether or not you have had torrential rainfall. It would take that and a pretty nasty leak or three to get that much water in the boat. Make sure the drain hole on the FRONT of the bow is unclogged...the one that drains the anchor locker......IF it is plugged, there is a chance the anchor locker would fill and then spill over in such a way as to get water in the bilge which would then flood up over the floor....

If you have no automatic bilge pump, I would consider it seriously, as this sounds quite nasty. You could probably get her dry, though with a couple of buckets and a good dinghy-type bilge pump.

Without more specifics, I am not sure what else to suggest that would explain THAT much water in one week....nor would these explains a situation that is NOT getting worse! Unless, of course, the torrential rains I mentioned have stopped. Then I would suspect serious leaks from the topside/decks area....otherwise, this water is coming in from below the waterline.....I would get really serious about getting some professional help if you cannot figure this out quickly......a sunk boat would not be fun, I suspect.

Gary B.
Fleet 94 Captain
s/v Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2005 : 14:56:22

You have 3" of water in the cabin... Where?
Over the floor or in the bilge?

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2005 : 16:44:19

GET THAT BOAT PUMPED OUT IMMEDIATELY!!!

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If the boat continues to settle in the water, the top of the hose at the swing keel cable will go below the external waterline (which is much higher than the internal waterline you describe as being 3" deep). Once that hose goes under, water will pour into the boat from the open upper end of the hose. This can occur long before it "looks" to you like your boat is in danger of sinking.<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It is not getting worse (thank goodness).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">One reason it may not appear to be getting worse, is that as the water rises inside the boat, the surface area of the water inside increases. This means that the water level rises more slowly, and additional water doesn't seem to be coming in as fast. You may even think water has stopped coming in all together. Like Gary, I can't imagine any leak in a fiberglass boat "fixing itself".<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">This is a first boat for us so dont assume we know anything (we dont)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Then get professional help with this immediately. Finding and fixing the cause of 3" of water in the cabin (whether above or below the cabin sole) while the boat is still in the water does not sound like a good beginner project.

One last next-to-worst case suggestion: If you can't get professional help, can't get the boat out of the water, and can't keep it continuously pumped out. Then pump it out as best you can, and try to run it aground on a soft, preferably sandy, shallow sloping beach with the swing keel in the fully up position and the rudder removed. That way, if it does sink, it will be much easier to refloat than if it sank in deeper water.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - Leon Sisson on 04/16/2005 16:45:34

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2005 : 21:19:53

Heck, 3" of water in the bilge isn't the end of the world. I had that much in my bilge after I took the tarps off this past winter. Dry it out real good and keep a sharp eye out for leaks at the obvious locatons mentioned. If the leak is below the water line you won't find it if you take the boat out of the water. If it's above, you may not find it until the next rain.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2005 : 22:57:45

>Heck, 3" of water in the bilge isn't the end of the world.

Agreed... until I started rebedding everything, finding 3" in the bilge after heavy rains was not uncommon. I'd pump it out by sticking a hand-operated bilge pump down through the dinette table base. When I had the anchor locker drain plug up, I had plenty in the 'forepeak bilge' too.

I still get some rainwater in the 'main bilge' that I think is coming from the hull-deck joint (under the rubrail).

Edited by - on

existentialsailor
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1180 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2005 : 23:04:58

If I found 3 inches of water in my boat, I would be in a major panic, but then, I have a Capri not a regular Catalina so water on the inside is more of an issue.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 04/16/2005 : 23:48:06

However, If I had 3" of water over the floor, I would be pani... er... very concerned too.
Hence my original question.

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2005 : 00:13:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Heck, 3" of water in the bilge isn't the end of the world.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I would agree with that - that's about how much I found in my C-25 when I got it. But they didn't say "in the bilge". What they said was:<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> We had a bottom job done and put it in about a week ago .... We are taking on water and cant figure out where it is comming from. We have about 3 in. of water in the cabin.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Which to me means 3" above the cabin sole. That's what alarmed me. I agree that's still not going to sink a fixed keel C-25. But that keel cable hose is a different matter. And if it went from possibly dry bilges to that in a week, that's cause for concern. Not trying to be argumentative, just explaining in more detail how it sounded to me.

I hope 'nanahammel' will clarify their situation for us

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2005 : 08:01:41

This may sound a little bit off key but think about it. If you have to beach the boat or can get it out of the water and pump most of the water out, refill the INTERIOR area with water and watch the outside of the boat for your leak area. Your certainly not putting in anything more than what was there previously. This is the procedure we used finding leaks on aircraft floats.

Edited by - on

nanahammel
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2005 : 08:58:29

[quote]Originally posted by nanahammel
 Could someone help me please?

My husband and I have a catalina 25 with a swing keel. We just moved it from Austin to Rockport Texas. We had a bottom job done and put it in about a week ago. Here is the problem. We are taking on water and cant figure out where it is comming from.We have about 3 in. of water in the cabin. It is not getting worse (thank goodness).

This is a first boat for us so dont assume we know anything (we dont)
Could it have something to do with the swing keel?

Any ideas would be welcome.

ok,sorry,I tried to keep it short and sweet, here are more details.

This happed once before,when the boat was in Lake Travis, we pumped it out and didn't have a problem. We assumed rain.

This time however it had not rained. but it has stayed the same for over a week now. My husband hurt his back and has been unable to bump it out but has been checking it daily. It is not getting any worse. We have 3 inches of water at the deepest ON THE CABIN FLOOR. We were VERY concerned at first because it had NOT rained, so my husband was checking it hourly, now daily. We are going to pump it out today. We cannot thank all of you enough for your input and will update when we find the problem. It is nice to know we have somewhere to get ideas from. My son would be proud of me for finding this site on my own. After all I am a Grandma and therefore not withit enough to surf the web

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2005 : 09:25:41

nanahammel,<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We have 3 inches of water at the deepest ON THE CABIN FLOOR.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That's a lot of water to pump by hand. I hope you have an electric pump you can use. IF not, you might want to look into getting one.

You could pick up a small electric bilge pump that would be appropriate later for permanent installation. For now, just jury-rig the pump with maybe 15' of hose, about the same length of wire, and a pair of battery charger sized jumper cable clip-on connectors (like big alligator clips). Hook that up to your onboard battery, or a borrowed one, and position the pump by hand wherever the water seems deepest. Once you get it pumped down to the cabin sole, move the pump to the deepest flooded storage compartment.

I had to do just that with my C-25 when I first got it, until I could get a trailer for it, and get it hauled. By the way, my mystery leak was at the lower rudder gudgeon. It was submerged while motoring, but just above the waterline when docked. Hence tha boat took on water while I was moving it with two people in the cockpit, but the water no longer came in when we stopped the boat and went into the cabin to look for the source. Sound familiar?

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2005 : 09:34:17

Once, when I had a few windows pulled for rebedding, a storm came through and a considerable amount of rain blew in from under the tarps. This rain left a few inches of water on the cabin floor, but nothing in the bilge.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 04/17/2005 : 11:21:19

I wouldn't be too concerned if the three inches of water is in the depression of the cabin floor near the galley. But, if the bilge is full and the water in the cabin is 3" above that, that's a lot of water, and you really need to find the source of the water.

The source of the water can only be (1) the lake, (2) rain, or (3) a leaking water tank or toilet. If lake water is getting in, that's serious. If the source is rain or a leaky tank, the only concern is that it could cause long term damage if ignored. Although you don't recall it raining, it might have rained at night, while you were sleeping.

There are only a few places that lake water could be getting in. It has to be coming in through a through hull fitting, or through the swing keel mechanism, or through a breach in the hull somewhere. Many C25s have a through hull fitting under the galley, to empty water from the ice box and the sink, and they often have another through hull fitting under the v berth, to empty water from the vanity sink, if your boat has a vanity sink (they were optional). Examine those carefully to see if there is moisture around their base. If so, pull the boat out immediately and replace them. They're not difficult for a handy person to replace, and you can find instructions on how to do so on this website. If your boat has a knotmeter or a depth sounder, it might also have through hull fittings for each of those devices. They also need to be checked for signs of leaking.

Lake water could also be coming in around the swing keel cable mechanism. Especially check the hose that the cable goes through.

Lake water could be coming in through a loose rudder gudgeon, as Leon pointed out.

Lake water could also be coming in from a crack in the swing keel housing. If the swing keel cable ever rusted and broke, it might have caused a crack in the area near where the keel pivot is attached to the hull. I've seen photos of such damage on this website that will help you locate and examine that area of the boat. Perhaps someone else can find it and furnish you a hyperlink to it.

Now for possible good news. On a swing keel boat, lake water could also enter the boat through the swing keel cable hose if the outboard motor was operated in reverse. Sometimes, when you back up a C25, water absolutely erupts from that hose, and if that's the source of the water, it's not anything to worry about. Just stop giving her so much gas in reverse. Also, if you launched the boat from the trailer, and released the bow cable and let it roll quickly off the trailer into the water, instead of using the winch to control the speed of the boat as it rolled off the trailer, I suspect water would erupt in the same manner through the swing keel cable hose. That also would not be a cause for concern.

Sailors are almost universally helpful people. Don't be shy about asking another sailor on your dock to help you check the boat for these possible problems.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2005 : 13:06:19

3 inches of water over the cabin floor means a lot of wiring is underwater. I'm surprised the batteries are not under water!

I should know, I've had done so many wiring repairs lately!

When you do get the leak fixed be very careful and have someone inspect the wires.

Thank your lucky stars its fresh water.

Edited by - on

Buzz Maring
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1772 Posts

Response Posted - 04/18/2005 : 13:18:43

... Thank your lucky stars its fresh water. - Jim

Rockport is on the Texas Gulf coast ... it's likely salt water.

I wonder if the reason the leak has "slowed" is because the swing keel is grounded in a shallow slip.

Nana ... do you have any updates for us? BTW, there are a couple of Association members who live near you (including the owner of C-25 hull #1, "Confetti") ... it might be possible to team up with one of those guys to get a helping hand.

Let us know the latest ... good luck!

Edited by - on

Sid
Navigator

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129 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2005 : 10:13:38

Like Buzz says, Rockport is on the Gulf and saltwater. I know it sounds nasty but you could always taste the water to see if it's salt or fresh. If salt, I would get the boat out of the water asap. Fresh means you can leave the boat in the water (pumped dry of course) and you get to join the rest of us in chasing down leaks. The chalk and water hose method described elsewhere in the forum works well, though I still have a few that have eluded me. Good luck and keep us posted.

Edited by - on

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