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NOAA info - U.S senate bil

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jackfuller
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/02/2005 : 19:34:50

(This just came to me via the Sailnet Morgan discussion group. Looks legit. It's very definitely boating related. Jack)
All -

This info was forward on to me. My first thought was that it was yet-another-crank, however I've googled, and check snopes and truth-or-fiction - and am dismayed to find that it is legit.

A bill is currently pending in the U.S. Sentate which may require you to pay for weather and related info you can now get from NOAA for free. If this disturbs, then write to your elected representatives and express your concern.

Here's the summary - U.S. Sentate bill 786

PA senator Rick Santorum proposed a bill that would prohibit
federal meteorologists from competing with companies such as Surfline,
AccuWeather and The Weather Channel. His proposal is that the information
that we already pay for through our taxes would only be made available to
corporations that would then RESELL the information you! For a fee, of
course. What would this mean to you?

1. YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY TO GET ACCESS TO BUOY READINGS.

2. YOU WILL NOT HAVE DIRECT ACCESS ANY OF THE DATA GATHERED BY THE NATIONAL
WEATHER SERVICE OR ANY OTHER FEDERAL AGENCY (THROUGH THE WEB OR ELSEWHERE).

3. YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR ANY SURF FORECAST.

4. YOU WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO READ A NESURF.COM FORECAST (BECAUSE THERE
WILL BE NONE).

If this disturbs you, pick up the phone now and call (or use the webform)
and voice your displeasure.

Senator Santorum's Email Submission form
Washington, D.C. Office:
511 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Main: 202-224-6324

If you use the online form the Subject line should read: "National Weather
Services Duties Act of 2005 (Introduced in Senate) S. 786." Your message
should mention, in the first sentence, that you disapprove strongly to the
proposed legislation.

Edited by - on

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2005 : 17:21:46

Thanks for the heads up Jack.
I just got off the phone with the Senator's office after stating that the information belongs to us and we should not have to pay for it twice. as I have read the bill, posted below, the area that is questionable seems to be section (c) paragraphs 1 and 2. I seems to imply that the access portal will or could be at the discression of the secretary of Commerce, via comercial provider, or by some other means. At present anyone can go to noaa.com to view charts, and access bouy data. Does the new bill mean that the noaa site will no longer be accesible by the public. Hard to tell through the legaleze.

Edited by - John V. on 05/03/2005 20:40:28

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2005 : 17:29:07

National Weather Services Duties Act of 2005 (Introduced in Senate)

S 786 IS1S

(Star Print)

109th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 786
To clarify the duties and responsibilities of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Weather Service, and for other purposes.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

April 14, 2005
Mr. SANTORUM introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A BILL
To clarify the duties and responsibilities of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Weather Service, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `National Weather Services Duties Act of 2005'.

SEC. 2. DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF NATIONAL OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION AND NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE.

(a) NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE- To protect life and property, the Secretary of Commerce shall, through the National Weather Service, be responsible for the following:

(1) The preparation and issuance of severe weather forecasts and warnings designed for the protection of life and property of the general public.

(2) The preparation and issuance of hydrometeorological guidance and core forecast information.

(3) The collection and exchange of meteorological, hydrological, climatic, and oceanographic data and information.

(4) The provision of reports, forecasts, warnings, and other advice to the Secretary of Transportation and other persons pursuant to section 44720 of title 49, United States Code.

(5) Such other duties and responsibilities as the Secretary shall specify.

(b) COMPETITION WITH PRIVATE SECTOR- The Secretary of Commerce shall not provide, or assist other entities in providing, a product or service (other than a product or service described in subsection (a)(1)) that is or could be provided by the private sector unless--

(1) the Secretary determines that the private sector is unwilling or unable to provide such product or service; or

(2) the United States Government is obligated to provide such product or service under international aviation agreements to provide meteorological services and exchange meteorological information.

(c) ISSUANCE OF DATA, FORECASTS, AND WARNINGS-

(1) IN GENERAL- All data, information, guidance, forecasts, and warnings received, collected, created, or prepared by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration or the National Weather Service shall, to the maximum extent practicable, be issued in real time, and without delay for internal use, in a manner that ensures that all members of the public have the opportunity for simultaneous and equal access to such data, information, guidance, forecasts, and warnings.

(2) MODE OF ISSUANCE- Data, information, guidance, forecasts, and warnings shall be issued under paragraph (1) through a set of data portals designed for volume access by commercial providers of products or services and by such other mechanisms as the Secretary of Commerce considers appropriate for purposes of that paragraph.

(d) PROHIBITION ON CERTAIN DISCLOSURES- An officer, employee, or agent of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the National Weather Service, or any other department or agency of the United States who by reason of that status comes into possession of any weather data, information, guidance, forecast, or warning that might influence or affect the market value of any product, service, commodity, tradable, or business may not--

(1) willfully impart, whether directly or indirectly, such weather data, information, guidance, forecast, or warning, or any part thereof, before the issuance of such weather data, information, guidance, forecast, or warning to the public under subsection (c); or

(2) after the issuance of such weather data, information, guidance, forecast, or warning to the public under subsection (c), willfully impart comments or qualifications on such weather data, information, guidance, forecast, or warning, or any part thereof, to the public, except pursuant to an issuance that complies with that subsection.

(e) REGULATIONS- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Commerce shall prescribe regulations to implement the provisions of this section.

(f) PRODUCT OR SERVICE DEFINED- In this section, the term `product or service' means a product, service, device, or system that provides, senses, or communicates meteorological, hydrological, climatic, solar, or oceanographic data, forecasts, or other similar information.

(g) EFFECTIVE DATE- The provisions of this section (other than subsection (e)) shall take effect 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.

(h) CONFORMING AMENDMENTS- The Act of October 1, 1890 (26 Stat. 653) is amended as follows:

(1) Section 3 (15 U.S.C. 313) is repealed.

(2) Section 9 (15 U.S.C. 317) is amended by striking `, and it shall be' and all that follows and inserting a period.

SEC. 3. REPORT ON MODIFICATION OF NATIONAL OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION AND NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ACTIVITIES.

(a) REPORT- Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Commerce shall submit to the appropriate committees of Congress a report that sets forth--

(1) a detailed statement of the activities, if any, of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the National Weather Service that are inconsistent with the provisions of section 2;

(2) a schedule for the modification of the activities referred to in paragraph (1) in order to conform such activities to the provisions of section 2; and

(3) the regulations prescribed under section 2(e).

(b) APPROPRIATE COMMITTEES OF CONGRESS DEFINED- In this section, the term `appropriate committees of Congress' means--

(1) the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate; and

(2) the Committee on Science of the House of Representatives.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

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USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2005 : 20:29:16

I have often seen Mr Santorum on TV and he seemed like a rational person. This bill is clearly irrational and he must be poorly advised, or so landlocked as to be unaware of the consequences. Let us hope he comes to his senses, ron srsk Orion SW FL

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2005 : 21:00:19

Sound like a sweet deal for somebody.

So in short, the bill says the NWS (taxpayer) collects the data and is then prohibited from releasing it to the public whenever a private business wants to make a buck selling the same data. Lotsa nice 'doublespeak' in the bill too.

Here's a few links...

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/news/epaper/2005/04/21/m1a_wx_0421.html
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05116/494329.stm
http://www.betanews.com/article/Bill_Proposes_Ending_Free_Weather_Data/1114178376

The pattern is pretty clear.

Need a forecast? $2.50... bend over and click here.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2005 : 22:38:05

The Bill addresses two groups: (1) the general public, and (2) all people and entities other than the general public (i.e., commercial users of weather data)

Section 2(a)(1-4) requires the NWS to provide the general public free access to the following resources:

****************************************
SEC. 2. DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF NATIONAL OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION AND NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE.

(a) NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE- To protect life and property, the Secretary of Commerce shall, through the National Weather Service, be responsible for the following:

(1) The preparation and issuance of severe weather forecasts and warnings designed for the protection of life and property of the general public.

(2) The preparation and issuance of hydrometeorological guidance and core forecast information.

(3) The collection and exchange of meteorological, hydrological, climatic, and oceanographic data and information.

(4) The provision of reports, forecasts, warnings, and other advice to the Secretary of Transportation and other persons pursuant to section 44720 of title 49, United States Code.
************************************

That sounds to me like a broad description of all the info that the NWS collects. I don't see any language that suggests that we members of the general public won't have access to buoy readings or surf forecasts.

On his website, Sen. Santorum says this proposal is intended to restore a policy that has existed since 1991. In 1991, the National Weather Service (NWS) adopted a policy to not provide products or services that were or could be provided by the commercial weather industry to anyone other than the general public. That policy continued in effect until December, 2004, when NOAA (the parent agency of the NWS) repealed it.

My guess is that we recreational sailors were so completely unaffected by the change when it was adopted in 1991 that we didn't even notice it, and that we likewise didn't notice anything different when the policy was repealed in December, 2004. The reason why it doesn't affect us is because it is only intended to affect commercial users of weather information, not recreational sailors. We didn't notice it when the rule was adopted in 1991, because we still had access to all the same data as we had before it was adopted.

Since 1991, while this rule was in effect, we recreational sailors have enjoyed free weather services.

The part of the Bill that requires users to obtain their weather data from commercial providers reads as follows:

*******************************

(b) COMPETITION WITH PRIVATE SECTOR- The Secretary of Commerce shall not provide, or assist other entities in providing, a product or service (other than a product or service described in subsection (a)(1)) that is or could be provided by the private sector unless--

(1) the Secretary determines that the private sector is unwilling or unable to provide such product or service; or

(2) the United States Government is obligated to provide such product or service under international aviation agreements to provide meteorological services and exchange meteorological information.

*****************************
The words that I highlighted above in bold type refer to the data that is required to be furnished to members of the general public. Thus, the general public is not required to get its weather data from commercial providers.

I think commercial users ought to pay for their weather services. They can afford to pay. It's part of their business. I don't think we little recreational guys should have to pay for it. We don't profit from it financially, and, for most of us, the expense of owning a boat is already something of a burden.

Radio and television broadcasters and newspaper publishers are entities that are not included as members of the general public, and they will have to obtain their weather data and services from commercial weather providers and to pay for them. Because this bill will hit those entities in their pocketbooks, you can expect them to try to mislead people like us into thinking we're being deprived of something, because politicians will listen to angry boater-voters, but nobody feels sorry for the press.

I suggest everyone write their senator and congressman and tell them that you would strenuously oppose the bill if it will affect or limit or change in any way the free access that recreational users have to the same breadth and quality of weather services as are presently provided, but that you would support the bill insofar as it requires commercial users to obtain their weather services from commercial providers, or pay for them.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/03/2005 22:42:20

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2005 : 21:39:19

Last time I checked, business paid plenty of taxes in support of govt. services like the NWS. I'm not quite sure why they should have to pay a middleman extra for information.

What I see here is a bill to protect a business model that's failing because (publicly funded) information is now freely available via the internet... where a private business used to monopolize it.

Since the language specifies that the NWS to is only provide 'emergency info' and 'core forecasts' I wouldn't count on things like weather radar, buoy data, climate data, long range forecasts etc. to be freely available anymore if somebody thinks they can make a buck retailing it.

If a politician tells me it's sunny, I'll fetch my umbrella.
My 2 cts.

Edited by - on

pwhallon
Admiral

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USA
694 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2005 : 17:39:45

"If a politician tells me it's sunny, I'll fetch my umbrella."

I'll second that emotion,

PW

Edited by - pwhallon on 05/05/2005 17:40:26

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2005 : 08:53:20

The problem I have with "comercial" providers is the very general audience they have to reach. The information is too broad to be of any use to a sailor. It's not economical for a comercial weather provider to give specific forcasts and reports for marine interests. We all use NOAA weather data provided on VHF and I hope that service continues. As many of you know it is cheaper to get the forcast than it is for USCG to come out and rescue your sorry A__. I like to have wave hights, wind velocity, and reported information from other vessels before I make my decision to go out. I have a feeling that the shipping industry will have quite a bit of leverage in seeing to it that the Secretary of Commerce maintains NOAA weather broadcasts on VHF. The bill indicates that the service would be out if not containing severe weather information.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2005 : 09:42:42

Mike Smith started WeatherData here in Wichita, Wichita is a weather man's dream due to our location in the middle of seasonal fronts. Here is a n article in the local Knight Ridder discussing the bill's impact and rational...
email this print this reprint or license this
Posted on Wed, May. 11, 2005

Weather regulations unleash tempest in Senate

BY STAN FINGER

The Wichita Eagle

A Senate bill seeking to clarify the duties of the National Weather Service is generating a storm of controversy.

The bill, introduced last month by Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., would prevent the weather service from offering products or services that are or could be offered by private-sector weather companies such as WeatherData in Wichita or AccuWeather in State College, Pa.

"It's not going to change how I do my job," said Dan Sobien, a meteorologist with the NWS and vice president of the National Weather Service Employees Organization. "What it does change is how people are going to get their weather information."

WeatherData founder and chief executive Mike Smith said the bill's intent "is to have the weather service spend its money and resources on creating more accurate data, more accurate forecasts and more accurate storm warnings, but also to get the weather service out of interfering with the private-sector weather industry.

"We're just looking for a level playing field," Smith said.

The National Weather Service provides weather, hydrologic and climate forecasts and warnings. It has 122 forecast offices, including locations in Wichita, Dodge City, Topeka and Goodland.

In a letter to a congressional subcommittee earlier this month, the weather service employees' general counsel, Richard Hirn, warned that the Santorum bill would turn the National Weather Service into an $800 million a year "corporate-welfare subsidy" to commercial vendors of weather information.

"The public, state and local governments, and even other federal agencies would be required to obtain all their weather information from private commercial weather companies," Hirn wrote, citing a provision in the bill calling for all information to be issued through a set of data portals designed for volume access by commercial providers of products or services.

Such predictions are "absolutely wrong," Smith said.

"I want the National Weather Service to do great work for the public at large in terms of forecasts and storm warnings," Smith said.

The conflict revolves around products the weather service has developed that copy what private-sector companies offer, he said. It seems like a waste for an agency already grappling with funding shortages, he said.

In testimony before Congress last month, Hirn warned that an estimated $40 million shortfall in funding for the weather service in fiscal year 2006 would result in personnel and service cutbacks that would endanger public safety and delay the implementation of new science and technology that could save lives.

Smith argues that the weather service could save money by not duplicating services provided by the private sector, such as customized digital cell phone forecasts, plotted maps and digests of severe storm reports and enhanced radar displays.

Michael Eilts, president and chief executive of Weather Decision Technologies in Norman, Okla., said that when the government starts offering for free what private firms have spent millions of dollars developing and selling for a fee, it doesn't just destroy the private-sector business -- it chills future research and development.

"The bill is trying to draw some lines to keep people focused in the areas they do best," Eilts said.

As things stand now, he said, the weather service has carte blanche to do whatever it wants.

"They could do everything the private sector is doing," Eilts said. "You have to ask, 'What's good for the economy? What's good for the public?' "

A forgotten component of the bill, Smith said, is language that requires the weather service to make available to the public all weather data collected. When the weather service developed new radar technology in partnership with the Department of Defense and the Federal Aviation Administration in 1979, Smith said, it did not plan to offer the data to the public until the private sector protested.

That happened again in 1991, Smith said, with Nexrad technology.

Eilts said he understands why emotions are running high on both sides of the debate.

"It's definitely polarizing," he said.

The bill is currently in the Senate's Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2005 : 10:52:07

Under Section 2(a), the bill imposes five general duties and responsibilities on the NWS. Only the duties conferred on the NWS by the first subsection of the bill are limited to "severe weather." The duties and responsibilities conferred by the other four subsections are not limited to "severe weather."

Subsection 2(a)(2) requires the NWS to "prepare and issue hydrometeorological guidance [i.e., the forecasting of precipitation (rain and hail)] and core forecast information (i.e., all the information needed to make weather forecasts)." In other words, this information will be available to the general public at no cost in all weather conditions, not just in severe weather.

Likewise, subsection 2(a)(3) requires the NWS to "collect and exchange meteorological [the study of atmospheric conditions for the purpose of making weather forecasts], hydrological [the study of the control and characteristics of water], climatic [the sum of the prevailing weather conditions over a period of time], and oceanographic [the study of the ocean] data and information." This information will also be available to the general public at no cost in all weather conditions, not just in severe weather.

In short, if the bill passes, the general public will have complete and free access to hydrometeorological guidance, core forecast information, meteorological, hydrological, climatic, and oceanographic data.

Thus, the bill expressly requires that the NWS provide weather forecasts, wave heights and frequencies, radar data, buoy data, climate data, short and long range forecasts, etc., not just in severe weather conditions, but in all conditions.

I don't see anything in the bill that suggests that the general public will have any less information available to it than we do at this time.

The part of the Bill that requires users to obtain their weather data from commercial providers expressly excludes all the products or services described in subsection (a)(1), which is all the data that is important to us recreational users. Thus, the general public is not required to get any of its weather data from commercial providers.

People have focused on the words "severe weather" and think they modify all the rest of the bill, but those words only modify Subsection 2(a)(1), which is the subsection in which those words are contained.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/11/2005 11:15:38

John V.
Admiral

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USA
559 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2005 : 15:59:41

I Guess it's time to throw all the Lawyers out of Congress, and send some teachers so that bills will be written in a clear, concise and understandable manner. This legislation reminds me of the adage about the camel being a horse designed by a committee.

Edited by - on

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