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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

TURNBUCKLE SOLUTION NEEDED

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RSHOOTER
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/17/2005 : 07:39:51

This is my first year with a 1999 C250 WK equipped with a CDI Furler.
We stepped the Mast Saturday and loosened the forestay and backstay turnbuckles to the maximum and with a huge effort finally got the forestay fastened. Is there an extension or solution to this problem? I have never seen such a tight fit in all my boats. I did slide the CDI Drum up the forestay and loosened it there as well. I'm out of ideas! Thanks.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2005 : 07:50:11

IMHO, the upper and lower shrouds being loosened makes it a lot easier also. The upper shrouds being the most important. How did you make out with rigging?

Edited by - on

RSHOOTER
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2005 : 08:35:47

Yes, I believe the Uppers were backed out as well. The Mast is up but I just have no leeway to adjust. Is this a common problem with this boat?
Thanks.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2005 : 09:15:48

Are all stays properly set in the mast slots and not reversed?

Are any of the tee bolts bent?

Is the mast base setting on the tabernacle?

Edited by - on

RSHOOTER
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2005 : 13:23:38

Arlyn, affirmative to all three. It's interesting that the CDI Plastic hockey puck type bearing has been milled out around the center to give a bit more length. That is even suggested in the CDI Manual. I would like to gain more leeway in adjustment but not too sure how...?

Edited by - on

RSHOOTER
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2005 : 13:24:38

Sorry, I meant to say negative to all three.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2005 : 14:53:50

Now I'm confused!

Edited by - on

RSHOOTER
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2005 : 17:48:43

That's what I get for typing faster than I thought!!! Let me try again....none of Arlyn's suppositions are evident.

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2005 : 18:01:19

I have always had trouble with reattaching mine until this past effort. My neighbor suggested letting out the backstay as far as it goes. I also used the mast raising system on the trailer to pull the mast tight forward, and the spare halyard attached to a winch and a line to the bow pulpit. It still took help from someone pulling down on the CDI to get it in line to pin.

Edited by - on

Greg @ Lake Tahoe
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2005 : 21:28:22

My friend Randy and I purchased a 2000 Catalina 250 that had spent its entire life on Lake Tahoe. I knew we would have trouble rigging the boat this spring given that we used alot of force taking the clevis pin out of the forestay chainplate. We solved the difficulty of repositioning the forestay (with CDI furler) as follows. While the mast was down, we ran a line through the front of the masthead. Both ends of the line hang evenly to deck level when the mast is stepped. We tied bowlines in each end. We then took a nylon belt tie down with ratchet tightening device (I don't know the correct name, a common item for holding boat onto trailer) and hooked one end through the 2 bowlines and the other end to the ladder on the front of our trailrite trailer. With very minor tensioning,you move the top of the mast foreward and you buy that 1-2 inches that allows the pin to be placed with ease. Voila, release the tie down and pull the line back over the top of the mast. It was so sweet, that we tried the technique on the next 250 that just happened to show up. We made friends quickly with this new (at least to us) technique.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2005 : 06:12:23

You guys have pointed out a distinction between the original gin pole mast raising system and the trailer pole system. The latter pulls on the mast at the spreaders rather than mast truck. Either technique outlined will work though I would think using the jib halyard would be the easiest as it is all ready there.

Edited by - on

RSHOOTER
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2005 : 08:30:27

We ended up cleating off the Jib Halyard and attaching the other end to the Trailer Winch. This is the trailer for the Wing Keel and has a built in mast raising pole. It raises the Mast very well and provides enough tension to attach the forestay. It just seems that this is a very tight arangement with no flexibility to adjust. Has anyone found another solution?

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

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USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2005 : 10:43:21

So basically what you are saying is the forestay is attached and all the turn buckles have barely any threads showing through and the shrouds and forestays/backstay turnbuckles are very hard to turn. Perhaps if the mast is close to being rigged you should sail around for a while and see if the shrouds and/or forestay/backstay loosen up
a little, perhaps sailing will loosen those cables up.

Edited by - on

RSHOOTER
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2005 : 11:14:48

Yes, the Forestay and Backstay have just enough to get the Cotter Pins in and that's all. I'm wiling to try anything but doubt sailing around would give much slack.

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Greg @ Lake Tahoe
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2005 : 15:54:34

We raised the mast using the assembly provided with the trailer. When the mast is evaluated from the side, clearly the area just under the spreaders is foreward of the top of the mast. We could not buy enough foreward motion at the top of the mast to attach the forestay. The line at mast truck pulling down the line of the forestay was key.

Edited by - on

RSHOOTER
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2005 : 07:31:43

I guess this is just a design flaw. Haven't been able to figure out a longer turnbuckle source.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2005 : 07:46:57

Roger, which stem location are you fitting the forestay? It should be on the most forward (and only) cross wise stem fitting. The top of the forestay should be made to the closest pin to the mast.

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2005 : 08:28:48

I have been following this thread with great interest.
When we get our new C250WB (two weeks :) we will be trailing it frequently, at least twice a month. So being able to easily raise the mast smoothly is an issue.
Don't know which type of furler is being installed (it is the standard 'Headsail Roller furling system')

Rogers boat is 1999 WK, is this issue associated with newer models or with just either SK or WK models?

Is the simple solution to add an additional shackle to the end of the forestay (is that even possible/practical).

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The line at mast truck pulling down the line of the forestay was key.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Is that using a halyard? Isn't the jib halyard employed on the furler or does the furler have its own masthead attachment?

I heard of bad experiences due to turnbuckles having insufficient threads engaged, so that would concern me considerably.

We have decided that when we pick up the boat, we're going to take photographic inventory of every part of the boat and trailer, before raising the mast and repeat the areas involved after raising the mast. We'll put the pics on the web.

Edited by - on

RSHOOTER
Navigator

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USA
101 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2005 : 09:19:34

Arlyn, I believe they are as you described but will have to check. I think there is only one choice at the Masthead...not sure about the deck.
Britinusa, you most likely have a CDI Furler which has an internal halyard. Your regular Jib Halyard is now a spare. We cleat it off and use it to raise the Mast. We don't use the sling and have much more purchase power which is the only way we got the Pin installed at the deck.

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2005 : 09:24:28

One item not mentioned in all the posts is that Catalina has used to types of furlers. One the Snapfurl uses the jib halyard to hold the sail at the head. So it is not available to pull the masthead forward to help attach the forestay. Two the CDI which does not use the halyard, leaves the halyard available to attach to something and pull the masthead forward to help in attaching the forestay. If you have added a spin or drifter halyard then it can be use to pull the masthead forward if you have a Snapfurl which is what we did when the dealer and I raised the mast at my dock.
Assuming no spin or drifter halyard then IMHO, the approach taken by Greg @ Lake Tahoe seems to be a simplest solution to the problem, and simple is always better.

Edited by - on

Greg @ Lake Tahoe
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2005 : 18:15:49

New to this forum, I want to thank everyone for their interest and help. It is clear that there are many ways to have success in attaching the forestay, or accomplishing the many steps of the rigging process. When the long time members of this forum weigh in, I know they have experienced or at least pondered our concerns.
In response to Britinusa, we used a 5/16 inch line over the most forward pin in the mast truck.

Edited by - on

tmadigan
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2005 : 00:31:27

Greg,

Thanks for your help in Tahoe last weekend. Hope to see you out there this summer.

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Greg @ Lake Tahoe
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2005 : 14:45:15

It was fun meeting you and sharing ideas. Count on us this summer.

Edited by - on

Randy Sharp
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2005 : 20:32:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Greg @ Lake Tahoe
 New to this forum, I want to thank everyone for their interest and help. It is clear that there are many ways to have success in attaching the forestay, or accomplishing the many steps of the rigging process. When the long time members of this forum weigh in, I know they have experienced or at least pondered our concerns.
In response to Britinusa, we used a 5/16 inch line over the most forward pin in the mast truck.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So Greg maybe we should patent this idea and use the line to raise a flag when not in use? LOL

Hope to get the speed sensor working and compass slaved next weekend.
Randy

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2005 : 22:42:57

Greg: Did you buy Tahoe Dream? If so, did you ever find out what caused the diesel smell???

Dan #727

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Greg @ Lake Tahoe
Deckhand

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12 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2005 : 13:50:40

Hi Dan, We did buy the Tahoe Dream. My partner is a skilled diesel mechanic and spent some time replacing all gaskets,seals and connections. We cleaned all porous material in the cabin and ultimately have an acceptable outcome. The problem seemed to be multlple small leaks. Do you have a history with this boat?

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