Association Forum - Slip entry and departure

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Slip entry and departure

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

lauvermd
Deckhand

Member Avatar

13 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/22/2005 : 17:16:58

Recently purchased a 79 Catalina 25 with a 1 year old 8 hp Honda 4 stroke. The throttle and transmission controls are on the motor. Also new to a slip in Maine with significant tides. Any advice on steering in and out of slip? I have been locking the motor straight and using the tiller to steer. I also find it a bear to reach back and shift to neutral/forward etc.
Would it be better to steer with the motor when manuvering in and out?

Thanks in advance.

Lauver
Maine
79 SR/FK

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2005 : 20:01:10

Most people develop the skills needed for their own situation by using the same concepts. The individual recipe may change but the ingredients are the same.

Way-on; you need to develop a sense of the momentum your boat has around your slip. The direction of the wind affects that a lot, experience will teach you how much. In a South wind I shift to neutral when coming in a good 25 yards or more from my slip and hit reverse after I am lined up and going in. With a North wind I stay in forward gear until I am lined up and spend very little time in neutral before going into reverse.

steerage; You must have adequate speed for the boat to answer the helm.

Pivoting on your keel; If you have a fin or any other keel that is in the sailing position then your sailboat will pivot on it's keel which allows 90 degree turns. These 90 degree turns are important because boats do not curve around the corner of a dock, you must line up out in the channel and go in and out as straight as you can.

Steering with the motor; When you are leaving the slip you must get adequate boat speed quickly so your rudder will work. If you need to turn your boat before you have attained that boat speed, (not uncommon) you can have a dramatic effect on steering by turning the motor. I steer with my motor every time I leave my slip, I sit however I must in order to hold the helm over and reach the motor tiller and shifter. After I am clear of the slip I swing the motor to the opposite direction and the boat pivots very quickly. I use my motor to steer with more than most because my swing keel must by up 15 cranks to clear a cross bar on my slip, hence my boat does not pivot on its keel without the help of the motor.

Edited by - on

thaind
Navigator

Members Avatar

Canada
145 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2005 : 21:43:22

PO of my 79 placed a control bar that links the tiller with the outboard. The outboard moves in unison with rudder when coupled.

I don't know how common this is, but it mantains tiller steering whether engine is on or not, and eliminates chance of outboard tattooing rudder, or tiller denting kneecap.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 08:31:06

Like Frank, I manually steer with both tiller and outboard when manuevering around the docks, and if you are in a current (tides), it is almost required.

Edited by - on

Lightnup
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1016 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:39:49

In "populated" areas, I lean back & turn the outboard with the tiller. It beats the stress of wondering whether the bow is going to miss the swim platform of that new SeaRay.

Also, neutral is your friend. Use it early, use it often (as long as you can maintain steerage, of course). It gives you time to think about your next manuever.

One more thing that I didn't pay enough attention to early on: when motoring (other than tight turining), make sure the outboard is aligned properly to push the boat as straight forward as possible. Even just a slight off-center alignment can make tiller handling more work than it needs to be.

I have an older Honda 8hp 4 stroke. It's been a terrific motor...so far. Hey, it's a boat, you never know.

Steve

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:47:34

IMHO a steerable outboard is your best friend when it comes to docking. In order for the rudder to work all by itself, the boat needs considerable speed... which can be a problem around the slip. Directing the motor thrust makes a huge difference.

I simply sit and steer both the rudder and outboard together by hand as needed. As I get close to the slip, I don't leave the motor in gear all the time. Use directed thrust to adjust your heading... then go back to center, kick the motor out of gear and use the rudder... then back to directed thrust as you need. (fwd or reverse) Learn about the propwalk (sideways thrust phenonema) from your engine too... it can be a big help next to the slip.

Just take her easy and think ahead about which way the tide is running so you can plan your approach to compensate. I've never really complained about reaching the shifter that much with the motor on the port side. (early C25)

A great quote from the 'Wisdom' section of Latitude 38. (paraphrased)

Approaching a dock is like meeting a woman in a bar... very seldom a will a slow approach be the wrong one.

Edited by - on

lauvermd
Deckhand

Members Avatar

13 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 09:57:18

Thanks for the advice. When you are maneuvering with the motor, do you lock the tiller straight? This is my first boat and experience as the "captain" and it is a little unnerving when you are around several expensive yachts. I have maneuvered in and out twice now and have had no major problems but when seated or reaching back to change gears it is really tough to see the bow. Thanks again.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 11:14:41

Coming back in, get the boat up to about 2 knots, put the motor in neutral, and forget it.

Your C25 can coast 100 yards starting at 2 knots. If its really windy, make it 2.5 or 3 knots.

If you are going to fast just prior to entering the slip make some big S turns.

Going out, use a long line on the aft cleat. Push the boat out of the slip, holding onto the line. Use this line to pull the stern around until the boat is pointing at a 45 degree angle in the direction you want to turn.

Jump in, give a nice burst of power. Get the boat moving. Once again, looking for 1.5 to 2.5 knots. Shift to neutral and forget the motor, steer the boat with the tiller until you've turned all the way.

Shift to forward, give the motor a good shot of power until you are moving, then back it down to idle and motor out of the fairway.

Save steering with the motor for times when you are in a strong crosswind or having other issues.

Since you are docking with the motor at idle in neutral and not using any reverse to stop, its a very small step from that to sailing back in.

I almost always sail in these days.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 11:16:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">When you are maneuvering with the motor, do you lock the tiller straight? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> You can lock the boat's tiller straight and maneuver entirely with the motor, or you can lock the motor straight and use the boat's tiller to steer the boat, or you can use both the boat's tiller and the outboard motor's tiller to steer the boat. In order to use both at the same time, you have to thoroughly understand how they both work, and how to manipulate them at the same time, and that can be confusing at first. But after you learn how to coordinate the two, you can spin the boat around and put it wherever you'd like. Go out on a calm day to an area where you have lots of room to maneuver, and take the boat's tiller in one hand and the motor's tiller in the other, and practice steering forwards and backwards. It won't take long for you to get a feeling for how to coordinate the two. Until then, use whatever method works best for you.

Edited by - on

kenobie51
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 13:03:19

As said before, you eventualy perfect a method that fits your dock location and prevailing winds. I usually leave the motor straight and steer with the tiller. I try to judge the correct approach speed, then shift into neutral and coast. I found that if I am fooling around with motor position and shifting in and out of neutral, I'm not looking where I'm going. More words of wisdom, "never approach a dock faster than you are willing to hit it"

Edited by - on

brien
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
8 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 13:26:03

In 10 years with my C25 I have never steared the outboard; just the tiller. I have a 9.9 Yamaha with a rather large prop and I found that the motor overpowers the tiller when in reverse. So, when backing I get a little speed up and then idle the motor, take it out of gear, and but the tiller hard over. The boat will make a beautiful pivot around the rudder. This works a little less quickly with a balanced rudder but it still works, I hate hanging over the transom messing with the outboard when I should be looking at the bow. Try this method, it works and looks very Seamanly. Seaman like??

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/23/2005 : 14:21:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lauvermd
 Recently purchased a 79 Catalina 25 with a 1 year old 8 hp Honda 4 stroke. The throttle and transmission controls are on the motor...I also find it a bear to reach back and shift to neutral/forward etc...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't know if this will work for your Honda, but if it does, it may make shifting easier.

One of my dockmates made an extension for his shifter handle by clamping on a 1 foot piece of 3/4" PVC pipe to the shift lever. This pipe was slotted on the end that went over the shift lever and was held in place with hose clamps. This extension brought the shift lever up over the engine cowl within easy reach. No more reaching down over the transom searching for the shift lever while coming into the dock.

(The integrated shift/throttle lever on my outboard is worth its weight in gold)

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2005 : 01:46:00

As a newbie - I practiced before I got near other boats. I told the marina guys that I wanted a slip that was Newbie friendly - they were only too happy to comply and offered some good local knowledge with regard to currents and prevailing winds and unseen hazards.

You have to really respect the tides and make sure you are head into a current or tide at slow speeds. To get into my slip, I have to go past the entrance, then make a U-turn so that I can approach against the prevailing current.
Best thing I learned was the feel for shifting and throttling my honda OB controls quickly with one hand while keeping the other on the tiller. I use the OB to steer when backing up and use the tiller with a straight OB when going forward. Hard over on the tiller/rudder about four times will pivot my swing keel about 90 degrees.
My dock-mate refers to my hard over on the tiller method as 'sculling'

Edited by - on

ronrryan
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
561 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2005 : 10:59:33

Many years ago a wise sailor told me two things that have helped over the years:(1) When maneuvering with a turnable outboard, turn the tiller and the outboard handle together to effect maximum turning either in forward or reverse--in other words, treat the outboard throttle handle just like a tiller, so the lower unit turns the same way as the rudder blade. (2) When sailing downwind, always point the tiller at the sail you want to FILL, to avoid accidental jibes or collapse of the jib. Both these pieces of advice have helped to save my old neck on occasion, hope you find them useful too, Fair winds, ron srsk Orion SW FL

Edited by - on

bbriner
Captain

Members Avatar

349 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2005 : 10:26:27

Since we are generally sailing more than motoring (hopefully) it really helps to build confidence and familiarty by some practice turning, backing, etc. in the marina area. When you turn using the both the motor and the tiller you can almost turn the boat in its own length - a great confidence booster when you're in a tight spot. A little practice of these techniques will really help reduce the stress at the end of a great day sailing.

(My technique is what 'Clambeach' said... a really slow approach, in neutral, so by the time I'm at the dock I'm barely moving. Then I can just step off and tie up If my approach is too fast some 'square' turns will take away some fwd momentum. I'm in a downwind slip so sometimes it takes some of these turns to slow down before the final turn into the slip).

I'm not an expert but it's something that I don't worry too much about anymore either.

Bill B
Wind Dancer 84 FK/SR
SF Bay

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

Members Avatar

844 Posts

Response Posted - 05/26/2005 : 15:41:03

1. Practice - you say you've only done it twice. Make the time to spend half a day doing it, you won't regret it. Then you can start practice sailing in. I found that a permanently mounted stern dock line can be simply draped over a winch, which is a wonderful kind of aft spring line - stops the boat, no hassle guaranteed.

2. You have three choices: tiller only, tiller and motor, motor only. Figure out what works best for different conditions during your time on Item #1.

3. Slow sometimes ISN'T better. The engine CAN go in reverse. With winds and currents, faster sometimes works better.

Enjoy your practice time, heck, you're on your boat.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 05/26/2005 15:43:44

deastburn
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2005 : 00:33:35

I have found entering a marina I can manage with just the tiller and the motor "locked" into straight ahead. If there's much of a wind, I go in fairly fast to maintain steerage, and use reverse to take the speed off in the last three or four feet. Coming out of a slip I steer with the motor since the tiller is useless to steer by until you have some momentum, and by then things begin to get thrilling in a hurry. Back at university in England I steered an eight-man rowing shell, and that taught me that the bow of a boat does not move when you steer. Only the stern slides across into the new position, changing the overall direction the boat is headed. That's key to both getting into a slip and getting back out. Going in, pay attention to the direction and strength of the wind and the current, and figure out how those two variables will affect the position of your bow; then compensate, so your bow ends up where you want it. The stern usually will follow. There is no substitute for practice. Don't be afraid to ask for help. We've all been there. Everyone has had his share of messy landings.

Edited by - on

bear
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
909 Posts

Response Posted - 05/27/2005 : 09:12:54

Three years ago I bought a "dockcatcher", what it does is hang a line about four feet high and overhangs the side of the dock about six inches. The line it holds is attached to a cleat on the dock. Very handy when single-handed. I can either grab it and wind it around a winch, grab the loop with a dock pole or be a good sailor and not need it. Can be seen at dockcatcher.com

Edited by - on

deastburn
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
334 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2005 : 23:02:24

Excellent idea. My present dock is in my backyard. All the docklines are permanently attached to dock cleats. At the end of each line I have tied a two-foot loop. When I leave, I simply hook the loop onto "coat hooks" screwed shoulder height onto the dock posts. The first and last posts have a hinged 18" long boom that swings out over the water and that I can hook the bow and stern lines onto. It makes single-handing into the dock very easy. (The lines stay with the dock, not the boat). Returning, head upwind (I can approach from either end of the dock--it is a "pass-through" dock), take the speed off, run up to the bow and grab the bowline, tied it down to the boat, and as the wind takes over and pushes the boat back, I move astern and attach the stern line. That controls the boat and gives me time to attach the other four dock lines. The key to all this is having dedicated dock lines that stay with the dock.

Edited by - on

stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

1608 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2005 : 20:50:30

You may also want to consider another of my strategies...lots of fenders.

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2005 : 02:38:39

Our slip in the normal wind conditions are perfect. The wind comes in 90 degrees to the dock and the slips all point into the wind. I can sail right into the marina and turn up into my slip. I'll often have the motor running slowly in reverse to break. The last few weeks I couldn't get the motor started so I had to practice some sailing tequiniques. A good one to remember when you want to stop fast and are headed into the wind is drop the tiller and push the boom forward. My slip is on the starboard side so I push the boom to port, this brakes and pushes me into the finger and hopefully stops me before hitting the dock. Then just jump out and tie off.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5908 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2005 : 09:47:50

I've been watching the marina operator and his assistant at my new Chesapeake location, and they launch a 30,000 lb. 40 footer, and then move it to the desired slip without using the motor at all. They push it in the desired direction, and then steer alongside one piling after another, and push off of it with their hands or with a boat hook, until they reach the desired slip, and then they work the boat into the slip by pushing and pulling.

I'm just learning how to back my new boat into a slip, and don't always hit it just right. Rather than continuing to try to use the motor, I just push and pull the boat the rest of the way into the slip, like the marina operator, and it works fine. What I'm suggesting is that you don't have to do it perfect every time. Just get it close, and work it in the rest of the way by hand.

Edited by - on

PZell
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
548 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2005 : 10:23:47

Indeed. One of the suggested docking manoeuvers in high contrary winds is to set the boat alongside the finger and use spring lines to bring it into the slip. That can be tricky too though.

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.