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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Should I invest in a furler?

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pjeffarch
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/12/2005 : 10:03:04

I bought my 79 SK last fall, and I'm loving it. It came with four headsails: storm, 110, 150, and 170, all like new. Winds vary here in NE, so I'm changing them occasionally, usually sticking with the 110. A furler is a huge temptation - but the expense is a hangup. I've also noticed that a furler's sail shape for a storm jib situation is odd and not as effective. Some other old sailors that have furlers say they 'miss' the traditional headsails.
Thoughts and advice?

Paul J
79 SK
Lake Cunningham, Omaha

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5913 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2005 : 10:41:55

There's no right answer for everyone. The answer has more to do with your personal needs, and how you like to use your boat. Hanked-on headsails can point higher and are generally shaped better. Furling headsails are much easier to change as wind conditions change. If tip-top performance is important to you (i.e., a racer or serious cruiser), and you don't mind bagging sails and going to the foredeck to change sails occasionally, and if you usually have at least one other person (or an autopilot) to steer the boat while you change sails, then hanked-on sails are the better choice. If you are more oriented toward casual cruising, can be satisfied with decent sail shape, don't have the boundless energy of youth, and are more likely to sail shorthanded, then a roller furler is the better choice. If you sail on a Great Lake or large bay, or along the coast, a furler might be a better choice. If things start to get really rough, it will be easier to quickly reduce sail. If you sail on an inland lake and things start to get rough, you'll be more likely to just drop the sails, start the motor and head for your nearby marina. In that case, the convenience of the furler will not be that much of a benefit.

You have a very nice selection of sail sizes that will be good for almost every condition.

When I was younger, I loved the hanked-on headsails on my C25. Now, I love the furler on my new boat.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 06/12/2005 10:55:03

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2005 : 10:52:12

There is no doubt that a furler is a huge advantage to getting you on and off the water. I truly believe that people with furlers go sailing more than people without. If I had the money I would buy one for my 25. With your sail inventory I would have the 150 re-cut to a 135 with luff foam for a Harken Furler. I always recommend Harken for all the reasons that make it the recognized best product for sail-shape. (I trailered mine on my last boat with no issues whatsoever.) One of the many features of the Harken is the double groove foil. Have the 110 and 170 modified to fit the foil, (remove hanks, add tape, no foam), now you have the best size furler sail, (the 135), it will furl smaller nicely, (with foam luff of course) and will move you in most conditions. You will be able to drop the 135 and hoist either of the other two sail if the conditions are particularly heavy or light. Those sails will not furl well unless the clew is re-cut and raised but as seldom as you would use them I would not bother having the clew raised, (however the 170 with a raised clew is a safer sail in terms of visibility). If you really want the best sail-shape possible in the storm-sail mode then you probably should add foam to the 110 as well but I would talk to the sailmaker about that. I promise that none of those old sailors have a Harken with extra sails, if they did they would not miss a thing because they would not have given up anything. Remember, the Tuff-Luff that racers use is a plastic version of the Harken double groove foil.

Edited by - Frank Hopper on 06/12/2005 10:59:39

Jay Schkloven
1st Mate

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USA
84 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2005 : 11:42:04

If I had known how wonderful the furler would make the sailing experience, I would have purchased it when I first bought the boat. If you single-hand, it is the best safety device on the boat. You just do not need to leave the cockpit. In a nice wind I have not seen a great difference in the boat's handling. In a breeze that would force a sail change, you just furl a little and keep on going.
I have the CDI furler with the ball bearings and recommend the furling system.

Edited by - on

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 06/12/2005 : 13:51:21

GET the FURLER! I have the Harken AL00. It is 18 YO and still works great. I put a 135 and am quite pleased with the package. The upwind performace drops when partialy furled.

Fri I was moving from the dock to my new mooring. The weather was crap and getting woorse with the approaching Arlene. I had to move the boat to pick up the dinghy. Wind was 15-20. As I approached the dingy dock, a squall hit with good force......THEN my motor quit! I simply pointed the boat out towards clear water and pulled a little jib out. It all took about 15 sec. Wind was now 25-35! I was having a ball. About 20 minutes later it started to abate. I let the rest of the jib out and sailed around till the rain stopped.

I consider it an essential piece of safety gear. Of coarse so is a reliable motor! I am saving for that now.

Tom.

Edited by - on

matsche
Captain

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USA
280 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 06:49:38

Paul:

Since you hail from NE, I'm guessing that you're on a lake. I would agree with Steve's accessment, that it's more a matter of weighing the pros and cons for your particular situation. Personally, I prefer the hank-on head sails despite the inconvenience. There are many things that you can do to make the sail changes faster and easier, but it'll never be as convenient as the roller.

You've already identified a major pro for hank-ons...cost. In my mind, it's a very expensive modification for such an inexpensive boat. And I'm with Frank and others, that if I went roller furling, I'd go with a Harken.

Another big hank-on pro is hoisting the right sail for the conditions. Since you've got a good headsail inventory to start with, I think it's a pro for you. With a furling, you can roll in 1/2 of your 150 genoa to reduce sail area when the wind picks up, but you still have up a sail made of thin cloth, intended for light wind conditions. I would think that over time you'd get some streching of the exposed cloth, eventually giving you a bad shape even when unrolled.

Thirdly, safety? I don't see roller furlings as safer than hank-ons. In fact, I think one could easily argue the other way. Hank-ons can be lowered from the cock pit as well by using a downhaul line. And because of the simplicity of the hank-on, you're a lot less likely to experience problems when trying to get the sail down in a hurry. Roller furlings (good units) don't hang up very often, but it does happen. I got to experience that first hand six years ago on an Erikson that got hit hard by a sudden wind that went from 10 to 40 knots before anyone realized the extent of the problem. Granted, we should have been paying more attention but the resulting 10 minutes of anarchy was a good lesson. And this is NOT to say, roller furling are not safe, they are very safe. But I don't buy the argument that they're safer than hank-ons.

On the other hand, there's a lot to be said for the convenience of the roller furlings so the bottom line is what you want for your boat.

Edited by - matsche on 06/13/2005 06:52:19

DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 08:15:42

May have missed it, but noone mentioned the advantage of dual tracks on the furler. Meaning you can raise a smaller, harder jib or your lighter 170 before dropping the other. Usually an advantage in racing and works best with foredck crew.

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 08:15:44

Edited by - on

MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 10:07:47

I have a 110 and a 150. For my inland lake conditions this is a great combo. $$$ was a big concideration for me when I got the 150 to add to the 1986 jib I had. I have never desired any other head sail, except for a spinny.
Yesterday it was blowing like crazy, I set the 110 and went out. I was sailing casual with my 5 year old and my 23 year old niece so we dropped the jib and just sailed with the main. we were moving around 6 or 6.5 miles per hour the whole time with this set up and felt very comfortable. By the way we were pointing just as high as with the jib set. Could have had more speed with the 110 raised but with the crew I had it would have been uncomforable.

Edited by - MattL on 06/13/2005 10:09:10

atgep
Master Marine Consultant

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1009 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 12:32:26

The dual foil thing is a non issue for me. If you run a second sail up the track, the original sail will be blocked from coming down as the swivel is above the new sail you hoisted.

In order to use it as a racing furler and use both tracks, harken say to remove the furling drum and drop the head swivel below all the sails.

too much work for me on a 25 footer.

However, the furler is awesome and gives you the real option of going from ADRIFT to under sail in seconds.

I need a new motor.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 12:41:41

you could sell those sails on the forum swap meet and probalbly earn enough $ to pay for much of the roller. If you sail mainly with the 110 now, get a roller with a 135. That is right for 90% of the conditions a causal sailor will see.

I have both a roller and hanked on sails. The difference is that with a roller you can save about 15 - 20 minutes and some exercise. This costs you some performance. Keep in mind:

Partly rolled sails dont point worth a darn.

When its really really windy is just when they get very hard to roll up. If something jams in the roller it can become impossible to get the sail out or in.

Since the clew of the sail is cut higher, visibility is improved with a roller setup.

That said, I use my roller every day. If we have a race or ultra light or ultra heavy air I go to the hanked on (I have 60, 110, 135 and 155 plus spinnaker).

Edited by - on

tcox
1st Mate

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USA
32 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 16:44:24

I'm lucky to have it both ways. When I purchased my boat it had an older Mariner furler that does not have a foil. The sail is "hanked on", and yet furls beautifully. The other great thing is that I remove my boat from the water and lay down the mast in the winter and I can coil my forestay without bending or otherwise damaging the foil. I don't know if there are any of these type of furlers still around, but I love mine!

Edited by - on

Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2005 : 18:35:46

I would trade my CDI (has roller bearing kit) and genoa for the storm and 110 hanked on sails.
I could meet you halfway between Wichita and Omaha if you like.

Edited by - on

Gloss
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1916 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2005 : 10:03:34

I love my furler (Schaefer CF-700). I'm a cruiser. If I ever do start racing, it will be as a participant, rather than a competitor (there is a difference) as I have a hard time dealing with racer's whining, so the small performance dropoff will be inconsequential.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2005 : 10:56:13

I'd be interested in buying the 170.

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2005 : 11:17:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tcox
 I'm lucky to have it both ways. When I purchased my boat it had an older Mariner furler that does not have a foil. The sail is "hanked on", and yet furls beautifully. The other great thing is that I remove my boat from the water and lay down the mast in the winter and I can coil my forestay without bending or otherwise damaging the foil. I don't know if there are any of these type of furlers still around, but I love mine!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I sent you an email via the forum to ask if you are coming to the Nationals, I did not receive an answer. Why don't you call me, I would love to talk to you about it.
641-6136
Frank

Edited by - on

DanM
Captain

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USA
256 Posts

Response Posted - 06/14/2005 : 17:00:42

Atgep, you are right. I forgot about dropping the swivel before racing, so you can be prepared to use the dual foil. Since I am a new owner and just planning to cruise, I love the Furlex that came with my boat (with dual foil and only one set of sails).

Edited by - on

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